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Just listened to Vogue on my headphones, and I'm unable to notice anything unique about the soundscape of this song. What do you folks hear and when do you hear it? At what point in the song?


> Just listened to Vogue on my headphones ...

There's been plenty of discussion, throughout the decades, on that subject.

My take: Qsound is something very specific and it is meant to work with actual speakers, not headphones.

Your anecdotical experience supports my take on the subject.


That makes sense, given the description of how it works, but the article distinctly mentions getting this effect from gaming headphones so...

Anyway, I went and tried again with just my laptop (based on the person above effusing about it). Again, for me, I'm not hearing anything special, and nothing "3D" about the sounds, other than some left-right shifts. And I guess the music is in front of me, since that's where my laptop is ;)


I don't know about Madonna, but the experience I had listening to this song for the first time with headphones on is what I would guess to be a similar experience:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aeTVvhuco4g

Sure, it's christian rock, but from South Africa so it has a different vibe from what you may have previously experienced.

They got the intro synth to swirl around your head and it's a vibe, and the song itself is decent.


I don't get swirls, it feels like they just swap channels quickly (10Hz+) and that is annoying, tbh.


This is the first time I've ever really noticed a difference between the upload and the CD. The CD Audio glides around your head like a halo, on the YT vid it jitters.


I can hear it distinctly from most of the tracks in the song, especially the voice tracks and some of the sporadic synths. Listening wired on decent headphones if it makes any difference. There's a clear spacial separation that isn't just this thing panned slightly left and that thing panned slightly right.


I agree. The article mentions bits going around their head, or in the front-right. I hear things on the left, and things on the right. And stuff that appears on the opposite side of where the article mentions them. I’m listening on Spotify, maybe all that stuff is stripped out?


Are you sure you don't have your left/right channels swapped? You don't know how many PCs I've run into with their speakers wired up backwards...


The spatial audio tricks that Q-Sound does are intended to be used with one stereo pair of speakers, and do not work with headphones at all.


Listened to it on a recent 16" macbook - sounds incredible. Better than most music I would typically introduce to it.


It's more significant than that. These self-replicating alife systems will dominate energy consumption and will be the largest forms of life.


Same thing happened to OpenAI. Will you steer clear of OpenAI forever as well?

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35294082


... Yes?


They can absolutely outperform gpt4 for specific use cases.


Yeah, a 7B foundation model is of course going to be worse when expected to perform on every task.

But finetuning on just a few tasks?

Depending on the task, it's totally reasonable to expect that a 7B model might eke out a win against stock GPT4. Especially if there's domain knowledge in the finetune, and the given task is light on demand for logical skills.


I am very open to believing that. I'd love to see some examples.


I agree, I think they need an example or two on that blog post to back up the claim. I'm ready to believe it, but I need something more than "diverse customer tasks" to understand what we're talking about.


You can fine-tune a small model yourself and see. GPT-4 is an amazing general model, but won’t perform the best at every task you throw at it, out of the box. I have a fine-tuned Mistral 7B model that outperforms GPT 4 on a specific type of structured data extraction. Maybe if I fine-tuned GPT-4 it could beat it, but that costs a lot of money for what I can now do locally for the cost of electricity.


Well it's pretty easy to find examples online, this one using Llama 2, not even Mistral or fancy techniques: https://www.anyscale.com/blog/fine-tuning-llama-2-a-comprehe...


They're quite close in arena format: https://chat.lmsys.org/?arena


To be clear, Mixtral is very competitive, Mistral while certainly way better than most 7B models performs far worse than ChatGPT3.5 Turbo.


Apologies, that's what I get for skimming through the thread.


Not for translations. Did a lot of experimenting different local models. None come even a bit close to the capabilities of chatgpt. Most local models just outputting plain wrong intormation. I am still hoping one day it will be possible. For our business a huge opportunity.


For translation, you're probably better off with a model that's specifically designed for translation, like MADLAD-400 or DeepL's services.


Are the PDFs of the posters available?


Hmm. Says "shift-click" to open poster on NeurIPS site -- you'll have to be logged in to the NeurIPS virtual conference, and the authors will have had to remember to upload their poster PDF.

If you want the paper pdf, you can "alt-click" to open paper on OpenReview.


The author claims that Van Eyck notices details we'd otherwise miss out and uses the Arnolfini portrait as supporting evidence. However it's possible that artifacts such as the beads appear not because he saw the world differently, but due to his artistic choice of tools. He may have used an optical projection device, a "perspective machine" -- Which means that his process may not have allowed for skipping the inclusion of the beads.

See:

- https://theconversation.com/the-mysterious-optical-device-ja...

- https://hal.univ-lorraine.fr/hal-03287031/file/VanEyckPerspe...

- https://link.springer.com/chapter/10.1007/978-3-319-31903-2_...


hoestly that's an real disservice to how hard it would be even to paint something from a projected image, this is the same kind of reductive judgement digital artists get today about making their art, I'd challenge anyone to try and take a camera obscura make a painting that looks as good as that one without the vast experience and training behind even simple things like handling and mixing pigments and filling in details that have moved.

even just knowing what you're looking at is a process of un-training your brain, a good art education actually starts from learning to see "correctly" and unsee all the shortcuts that your brain takes.


Absolutely agree that this is an incredibly hard skill in any medium, digital or otherwise.

It's also possible that Van Eyck may have perceived the world the same way we do, and the inclusion of small details such as the beads came only due to his artistic choice of tools. Conversely if you were trained to the same tool for sketching you would be forced to include the beads by way of process -- even if you had not noticed them before.


Of course, as far as artistry goes, it really doesn’t matter.

When I was first considering getting a BFA (in my late 30s) I thought my inability to photographically reproduce scenes using pencils and other traditional media precluded my going to art school... but I still gathered my courage, front-loaded my portfolio with what I thought was my strongest work— very polished photography— and scheduled a “do I even stand a chance here” portfolio consultation.

I swallowed hard when the interviewer (gruffly) introduced himself as a professor in the fine art photography program. He cooly disregarded shots I thought were most impressive— a perfectly composed and finished shot of a huge lightning bolt over a brick victorian cathedral shot from a fifth floor outdoor vantage point a few blocks away with a full frame DSLR; some long exposure shots of really grand views in a city; a few others. ‘Ah, yes. Very pretty. Doesn’t say much about you though, non?’ But as soon as he got through those and got to the ones I threw in there to pad things out, he started to pay more attention.

One-for-one, he was most interested in the ones I liked the most. I did not even take most on a ‘real’ camera, I took them on my phone... Abstract shapes made by overlapping subway bars. A smashed pile of dropped beer glasses at the bar I worked at. A guy in a suit sitting down waiting for a his hamburger order at 3am. He actually stopped, put his coffee and pen down, and spent a solid minute smiling and just taking in a picture of my wife, from behind, sitting a fifty or so feet away on a beach staring out into the water in the low-left corner of the frame with a low-flying plane the same size as her in top right of the frame. The shot really does viscerally convey groundedness, and airiness, the simultaneous distance and closeness of the juxtaposition on the infinite expanse of ocean and sky... it’s a great, kinda grainy, totally unpolished iPhone photograph.

Without a single pencil portrait or oil painting, he waived my admission and let me in on the spot. My school is no RISD, but a professor who went to RISD prided himself on perfect pencil realism as a high school student, but soon realized how little it mattered in practice. We obviously must know how to produce things visually, but perfectly reproducing a glass sphere sitting in front of a waterfall is a parlor trick. The time spent honing those skills to that level would be much better spend figuring out new and interesting ways to present what you see, or figuring out new angles or new truths to communicate about YOUR world, or even going out and experiencing new things to find captivating about it— many of them you'll probably find on your block.

Many folks— largely folks that haven’t ever or recently had anything to do with formal art education— think we lost something important by deemphasizing those rigid classical technical capabilities. Many of those folks would also be pretty sad if rock, rap, folk, cool jazz, folk, electronica, or any other modern music was replaced by Serious Classical Virtuosity.

In the end, you need exactly as much skill as you need to express what you want to express. The tools or techniques compensating for ‘missing’ skills often become the most compelling elements— like Jan van Eyck, here. He could have gotten a future iPad beamed to him with Adobe Illustrator installed on it and it wouldn’t make those prayer beads (or any of the other captivating shinies in his work) any less stunning. You can instantly tell his work by looking at it and it’s certainly not because everything looks just like a photograph— it has real emotional impact. It really viscerally communicates that weird Van Eck something and it definitely would do a worse job of it had he not used whatever projection doodad he used to get it.


Wow what a fantastic response. A wonderful example of what I come here for. Thanks for sharing this.


Thank you for writing this


Technical explanation by minutephysics: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pT19VwBAqKA

The amount of privacy is configurable, and researchers who would like to tune it (in either direction) can make a plea so the public can decide the amount of privacy loss they're willing give up in order to aid research.

Each culture is different and has different tolerances for privacy and amount of intrusiveness.


This is a standard feature of many browsers, including Safari.

E.g: On OSX you can download a .dmg file or .zip file, and when opening the OS will warn: "XYZ is an application downloaded from the internet. Are you sure you want to open it?". The information about the origin of the file comes from extended attributes.

See: https://www.idownloadblog.com/2017/04/20/fix-application-fro...


Windows has the functionality you describe too, but it works only by storing a flag specifying what kind of origin the file has, not specifically what the origin was. Your article seems to indicate that mac OS uses basically the same system as Windows.

EDIT: According to some other comments in this thread, I'm wrong. Mac OS does store the whole origin.

EDIT 2: Looks like I'm wrong about Windows too, which also stores the whole origin. This actually disagrees with what is written in the bug report, so perhaps it needs to be updated.


Windows doesn't just have a flag.

For example:

- If I download this using Chrome: https://aka.ms/getvsdbgps1

- Open a command prompt, cd to my Downloads directory

- Execute this:

    notepad GetVsDbg.ps1:Zone.Identifier
I get:

    [ZoneTransfer]
    ZoneId=3
    HostUrl=https://vsdebugger.blob.core.windows.net/vsdbg-16-0-11220-2/GetVsDbg.ps1
Some files I see also have a ReferrerUrl


I've always thought NTFS streams was a really cool idea- wish MS had kept them in ReFS


Apparently they added it back after the initial release.

Support for alternate data streams was initially not implemented in ReFS. In Windows 8.1 64-bit and Server 2012 R2 the file system reacquired support for alternate data streams, with lengths of up to 128K

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ReFS#Removed_features


No, macOS stores the whole thing in the "com.apple.metadata:kMDItemWhereFroms" xattr as a plist. e.g.,

    [
      0 => "https://raw.githubusercontent.com/marco-c/code-coverage-reports/master/web-platform-tests.tar.xz"
      1 => "https://github.com/marco-c/code-coverage-reports/blob/master/web-platform-tests.tar.xz"
    ]
Pretty sure [0] is the downloaded file, and [1] is the page from which the download was initiated.


No, MacOS stores the origin of the file. Downloaded with Safari:

    $ xattr -l Downloads/Ethiopian_Airlines_ET-AVJ_takeoff_from_TLV_\(46461974574\).jpg
    com.apple.lastuseddate#PS:
    00000000  D9 76 8A 5C 00 00 00 00 9F E5 89 0D 00 00 00 00  |.v..............|
    00000010
    com.apple.metadata:kMDItemDownloadedDate:
    00000000  62 70 6C 69 73 74 30 30 A1 01 33 41 C1 1D 57 2B  |bplist00..3A..W+|
    00000010  FF B1 3A 08 0A 00 00 00 00 00 00 01 01 00 00 00  |..:.............|
    00000020  00 00 00 00 02 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00  |................|
    00000030  00 00 00 00 13                                   |.....|
    00000035
    com.apple.metadata:kMDItemWhereFroms:
    00000000  62 70 6C 69 73 74 30 30 A2 01 02 5F 10 7D 68 74  |bplist00..._.}ht|
    00000010  74 70 73 3A 2F 2F 75 70 6C 6F 61 64 2E 77 69 6B  |tps://upload.wik|
    00000020  69 6D 65 64 69 61 2E 6F 72 67 2F 77 69 6B 69 70  |imedia.org/wikip|
    00000030  65 64 69 61 2F 63 6F 6D 6D 6F 6E 73 2F 64 2F 64  |edia/commons/d/d|
    00000040  32 2F 45 74 68 69 6F 70 69 61 6E 5F 41 69 72 6C  |2/Ethiopian_Airl|
    00000050  69 6E 65 73 5F 45 54 2D 41 56 4A 5F 74 61 6B 65  |ines_ET-AVJ_take|
    00000060  6F 66 66 5F 66 72 6F 6D 5F 54 4C 56 5F 25 32 38  |off_from_TLV_%28|
    00000070  34 36 34 36 31 39 37 34 35 37 34 25 32 39 2E 6A  |46461974574%29.j|
    00000080  70 67 3F 64 6F 77 6E 6C 6F 61 64 5F 10 19 68 74  |pg?download_..ht|
    00000090  74 70 73 3A 2F 2F 65 6E 2E 77 69 6B 69 70 65 64  |tps://en.wikiped|
    000000A0  69 61 2E 6F 72 67 2F 08 0B 8B 00 00 00 00 00 00  |ia.org/.........|
    000000B0  01 01 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 03 00 00 00 00 00 00  |................|
    000000C0  00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 A7                    |..........|
    000000ca
    com.apple.quarantine: 0083;5c8a76d8;Safari;ADF309D2-762B-4FE2-AEC6-104E019BDBF9


Additionally, the same information is stored in an SQLite database in your home directory. In fact, the ID at the very end of the output is the primary key to the table:

    sqlite3 ~/Library/Preferences/com.apple.LaunchServices.QuarantineEventsV2 "select * from LSQuarantineEvent where LSQuarantineEventIdentifier = 'ADF309D2-762B-4FE2-AEC6-104E019BDBF9'"
The entry in the table also doesn't seem to be deleted when you delete the downloaded file. That is, you can get a list of all files you've ever downloaded:

    sqlite3 ~/Library/Preferences/com.apple.LaunchServices.QuarantineEventsV2 "select * from LSQuarantineEvent"


Hmmm, I'm not seeing any entries in that table from Safari (my primary browser). I am seeing all the Hombrew Cask downloads, iChat (messages) and a couple Firefox and Brave based downloads.


    > select LSQuarantineDataURLString from LSQuarantineEvent where LSQuarantineAgentName = 'Safari';
    https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d2/Ethiopian_Airlines_ET-AVJ_takeoff_from_TLV_%2846461974574%29.jpg?download

Maybe you've got Safari configured in some way that prevents it, but with the default configuration, Safari definitely gets entries in that db.


Safari only records that file should be quarantined, not the URL.

Here are the extended attributes for an image downloaded by Safari in Sierra:

  ecthelion ~>xattr -l Downloads/fm_800-2.jpg
  com.apple.quarantine: 0083;5c8aa472;Safari;1021CF85-4F78-492B-A8E3-766C44A3A671
Here is the equivalent in Chrome Canary:

  ecthelion ~>xattr -l Downloads/fm_480.jpg
  com.apple.metadata:_kMDItemUserTags:
  00000000  62 70 6C 69 73 74 30 30 A0 08 00 00 00 00 00 00  |bplist00........|
  00000010  01 01 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 01 00 00 00 00 00 00  |................|
  00000020  00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 09                    |..........|
  0000002a
  com.apple.metadata:kMDItemWhereFroms:
  00000000  62 70 6C 69 73 74 30 30 A2 01 02 5F 10 29 68 74  |bplist00..._.)ht|
  00000010  74 70 73 3A 2F 2F 62 6C 6F 67 2E 6D 61 6A 69 64  |tps://blog.majid|
  00000020  2E 69 6E 66 6F 2F 69 6D 61 67 65 73 2F 66 6D 5F  |.info/images/fm_|
  00000030  34 38 30 2E 6A 70 67 5F 10 18 68 74 74 70 73 3A  |480.jpg_..https:|
  00000040  2F 2F 62 6C 6F 67 2E 6D 61 6A 69 64 2E 69 6E 66  |//blog.majid.inf|
  00000050  6F 2F 08 0B 37 00 00 00 00 00 00 01 01 00 00 00  |o/..7...........|
  00000060  00 00 00 00 03 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00  |................|
  00000070  00 00 00 00 52                                   |....R|
  00000075
  com.apple.quarantine: 0081;5c8aa4ab;Google Chrome Canary;B718AF12-557C-47AD-840A-0CA98281F256


That is contrary to what I'm seeing. The extended attributes for an image downloaded by Safari (in Mojave) do contain the kMDItemWhereFroms attribute.

    com.apple.metadata:kMDItemWhereFroms:
    00000000  62 70 6C 69 73 74 30 30 A2 01 02 5F 10 7D 68 74  |bplist00..._.}ht|
    00000010  74 70 73 3A 2F 2F 75 70 6C 6F 61 64 2E 77 69 6B  |tps://upload.wik|
    00000020  69 6D 65 64 69 61 2E 6F 72 67 2F 77 69 6B 69 70  |imedia.org/wikip|
    [snipped for brevity]
    com.apple.quarantine: 0083;5c8a76d8;Safari;ADF309D2-762B-4FE2-AEC6-104E019BDBF9
Have you modified the configuration of Safari in any way? I never use Safari, except this once to download an image to test with. It seems possible to me that Safari might disable it if you flip some privacy or security switches, which I haven't done.


How many projects would be affected if the Supreme Court sides with Oracle and rules that APIs can't be reimplemented?

Java is open source, but copyright is retained by Oracle. Would this affect say, Amazon's ability to rip off the MongoDB API? What about open source x86 emulators? (Intel IP) Hercules IBM emulator? Any of the Nintendo, SNES etc game emulators?


Or, say, an S3 compatibility layer for your cloud storage system: https://docs.cloud.oracle.com/iaas/Content/Object/Tasks/s3co...

I'm not surprised by Oracle's hypocrisy. I'm surprised anyone with a soul and functioning sense of right and wrong still works there.


If Oracle succeeds and Amazon proceeds to sue Oracle for that, that would be some sweet schadenfreude. Granted, I’d still be pissed at the decision, but to have Oracle’s tactics used back at them would feel really nice.


Oracle would just sue them back for Aurora's MySQL compatibility. If not sue them first.


They'd lose for the very same reason that Android is within the confines of the law via the Android Runtime. Dalvik violated the Java license, Android Runtime isn't. Aurora's compatibility layer isn't violating the MySQL license either.


> Dalvik violated the Java license, Android Runtime isn't.

Can you elaborate on this point? What license for what copyrightable work did Dalvik violate, and why does Android Runtime not violate that same copyright license?


The issue at hand was licensing. In the Android Runtime, Google is linking to the OpenJDK libraries rather than using it's "reverse engineered" runtime. OpenJDK is GPL with a classpath exception, which Google is utilizing.

The caveat for Google is any changes to the OpenJDK itself has to be upstreamed. But the Android Runtime itself doesn't have to be GPL due to the classpath exception.

In all honesty, this is how they should have done it in the first place.


That sounds more like an allegation that Dalvik was lacking a required license from Oracle, not that it was violating any existing license.


It was violating the open source license, thus required a commercial license, which it didn't have, which in turn makes this copyright infringement. At least that's the position of the courts so far.


If anyone owns the base copyright to SQL, it's IBM.


I recently heard of an satanist who got a job at Oracle. The satanist would say he worked for the devil


IANAL, this is not legal advice.

Linux and OS X implement the same APIs as Unix. Windows implements the same (or very similar) APIs as PM in OS/2.

Most modern PCs reimplement the IBM PC "API", hence "PC compatible".

> In no case does copyright protection for an original work of authorship extend to any idea, procedure, process, system, method of operation, concept, principle, or discovery, regardless of the form in which it is described, explained, illustrated, or embodied in such work.

(—Copyright Law of the United States[2])

APIs are the idea that binds components together. Even if you come to understand the interface by reading a programmatic description of it (e.g., a function signature), and reimplement it, and your language forces you to use the same exact wording to match the signature (b/c it's an API), there's nothing different here than the same exception given to the way that a the raw listing of ingredients in a recipe is not copyrightable (and this is called out as an example of such by copyright.gov[1]).

The appellate court erred in its application of the law.

Additionally, this was said on one of the amicus briefs,

> reversing the District Court would dangerously undermine the settled expectations of computer scientists and the entire computer industry that rely upon the open nature of APIs

(—Martin Fowler, Bruce Schneier, Bjarne Stroustrup, et al. were signatories to this amicus brief.)

The decision, were the industry to actually pay attention to it, would wreak havoc on the state of software engineering.

[1]: https://www.copyright.gov/circs/circ33.pdf

[2]: https://www.copyright.gov/title17/title17.pdf


Linux and OS X implement the same APIs as Unix. Windows implements the same (or very similar) APIs as PM in OS/2.

OS X doesn’t just implement the same APIs as Unix, OS X is certified Unix by the Open Group.


That just means that Apple's implementation is allowed to use the Unix trademark. It really doesn't add much of anything to the copyright discussion, especially since The Open Group doesn't own Unix copyrights, just the trademark.


Yes, if this decision doesn't go Googles way, all hell is going to break lose: WINE, Samba, S3 compatability, Amazon DocumentDB. The list is enormous and frankly, everyone loses somewhere. It's a complete nightmare.


Remember, if Oracle wins, they are not pursuing a ruling that obviates the doctrine of fair use; all of those cover the case of implementing an API for compatibility. Oracle's argument about Android and its use of Java is that Android did not run Java apps; it ran Java code, but it did not implement enough of the Java API surface to let you run Java apps unmodified. You could use existing Java code in new, Android-only apps that couldn't run on Sun/Oracle's JVM.

Therefore, Oracle's argument is that the fair use doctrine does not apply here; that Android is a derivative work of Java, which is not fair use. WINE, for example, is not ruled impermissible by the sort of ruling Oracle seeks.


I agree that Oracle isn't trying to create a ruling that obviates fair use; but assume you believe that the appellate court's ruling is correct, and APIs are copyrightable, how does fair use cover implementing an API for compatibility?

> Oracle's argument about Android and its use of Java is that Android did not run Java apps; it ran Java code, but it did not implement enough of the Java API surface to let you run Java apps unmodified.

So what? Partial compatibility is still meaningful in software engineering, and should allow libraries to run on both. Are you saying that if Google had fully implemented all of the Java APIs, it would have been fair use?

Further, can you ground the above reasoning (that fair use covers API copying, and that Google's partial implementation is material here) in the actual rulings for the case? I don't remember any of this from when I read them, though I do admit that was some time ago.

> WINE, for example, is not ruled impermissible by the sort of ruling Oracle seeks.

Why not? Simply because you cannot write a .exe that would run in WINE, but not in Windows?

Further, what if the example was instead Linux? Linux implements Unix's APIs, but also adds other APIs. You can use existing "Unix" code in new, Linux-only apps that won't run on other *nix OSs.


There's a book coming out in a few weeks with more details. The authors were provided with all the data.

What would you do with 1000 games that's not possible with 100?


I would be able to accurately gauge AlphaZero’s true chess ability, strengths and weaknesses. Right now it’s impossible to do that given a curated selection of games. It would be like evaluating someone’s coding ability based on a few samples of their absolute finest work rather than the code they actually write day in and day out.


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