I wonder what games people play with these joystick setups. I haven't had once since Commodore 64, and my PCs have always been too low end for flight simulators. This year I'm planning to make a difference with that trend. Any online competitive WW2 flight sims out there? How do commercial/small plane games compare? Space?
On the space side of things the two big games now are called Elite:Dangerous and Star Citizen.
Elite:Dangerous is the newest installment of the same series as the C64 game, and is a sandboxy-sort of online multiplayer thing.
Star Citizen is another (in dev; currently you can buy into the public alpha-sort-of thing) one, produced by Chris Roberts of Wing Commander fame. It's being sold as a "first-person universe", because you can also leave the cockpit of the space ship and run around places, optionally shooting things in an FPS sort of manner.
Of the two E:D can be played on slightly lower-end PCs, but SC is pretty demanding of a computer, especially in its current mostly-unoptimised alpha state.
Both of the games are pretty fun, but have their problems too.
E:D can be a lot of fun in small doses once you get your feet wet, but can be pretty grindy to start out with and gets kind of shallow and repetitive later. Also it's super-amazing to play in VR, if your computer can handle it.
SC is looking hugely promising and the current alpha gameplay is a lot of fun if you can deal with the bugs, but has a lot internet drama surrounding it. Said drama is mostly related to the game taking forever to develop, and the fact that you can currently pay (sometimes rather insane sums of) real money for getting your hands on the space ships currently available. The devs are insisting the buy-ships-for-money thing is only happening during development to help fund the process and will no longer be possible after proper launch, but we'll see how that works out in practise.
SC-wise, It's easy to stay away from the drama, especially if one notes that they spun up a team from 0 and have been at it for four years, compared to the 8+ years of other major MMOS. But yeah, it's pretty taxing - it takes a gtx 1080 to play @ 4k with mostly 60fps.
[Hellion](https://www.playhellion.com/) looks promising as well - it should be out for prerelease soon. I expect that to take up my time while I wait for SC.
If you want small planes or airliners then you might look into the new X-Plane 11, it has very realistic physics and looks really good even in the basic configuration, i.e. without add-ons, thanks to its last-generation graphics engine.
If, on the other hand, you plan on buying many add-ons (e.g. because you want to fly specific planes or fly to/from specific airports) then I suggest Prepar3d or FSX Steam Edition which are both based on Microsoft Flight Simulator X, which means they are compatible with a large number of add-ons.
Their graphics are not on par with X-Plane 11 though (unless you install scenery add-ons), since they are based on a 10-year-old graphics engine; you can see a comparison here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZUtEqgDjjJU
FlyInside https://flyinside-fsx.com/ is a very good VR mod for both FSX and Prepar3d (I haven't had the chance to use it myself, but all indications are that it's an outstanding VR app).
Notably X-Plane 11 has extremely bad perf on all but the highest end CPUs. It's currently badly limited by single thread peformance. My 4Ghz AMD 8 core can barely top 20 fps o on minimum settings (and also on maximum settings since it's badly CPU bottlenecked)
Yes X-Plane 11 is demanding in terms of CPU but as per comment above, parent is getting a new PC, so I assume the CPU will be at least on par with mine (I have an i5 6500, which is pretty much the minimum for a current gaming PC) and on my machine the game runs smoothly. I agree with you that on slightly older CPUs it might be a bit heavy to run.
Yeah but I read that chart and what it really says to me is that you can spend about $100 more to get a 10% single-thread uptick but other than that it pretty much doesn't matter (on that benchmark).
XP11 is still beta and they are working on bugs primarily-- they are addressing major performance issues but FPS optimizations will come later in the beta cycle.
But BOY does it look good! And the stock 737/MD82/747 are approaching payware-quality.
What kind of setup you have for KSP controllers? Do you have something for translation/rotation control for maneuvering in orbit? Two joysticks or a secondary joystick/hat in HOTAS or something?
I play on one rather cheap stick with built-in throttle. Throttle is mapped to main engine controls, XYZ to standard movement (I rarely fly planes, but I reverse yaw/roll if I need it). For RCS translation/rotation I use joystick hat (+ 2 buttons for forward/backward), and one button is reserved to toggle between translation and rotation modes using external program to remap keys and - for extra nostalgia points - it plays the "traaans-lation <beep>" / "roo-tation <beep>" sounds I stole from Orbiter.
Combat: DCS World is popular. Warbirds is still alive. Rise of Flight for WWI simming. IL-2 if you want single player. Falcon BMS for modern, detailed aerial warfare (weapon systems, radars, etc).
Civilian aviation: X-Plane, Flight Simulator X Steam Edition, Prepar3d. With IVAO or VATSIM if you want multiplayer with real humans doing air traffic control.
Space: Orbiter or Kerbal Space Program for simulation. Elite for combat.
I have a pretty low-end, old laptop and I play FSX (Microsoft Flight Simulator X: Steam Edition). My frame rate is pretty low (around 4 FPS) but it's still quite playable, if you can believe that.
Depends on what kind of flight simming you're into. If you're into instrument flying, there's not much need for decent framerates because you can't see anything but clouds or blue skies out of the window and 4 fps is enough to keep track of the instrument readings. For landing, you come in using a VOR or GPS route, then intercept the ILS glide slope, manage the aircraft and the engines and just a few seconds into landing take the controls and flare a little. This can be done with a mouse.
It's arguable how much flying you do in this, but radio navigation, communication, planning and aircraft management are pretty interesting on their own.
I'm just learning to fly, and 4 FPS is plenty for me to land most of the time using VFR in fair weather (but even with some wind and realism settings turned up).
I fly only small, one or two prop planes and gliders, and do so pretty much by the seat of the pants -- no GPS, even an altimiter is not really that critical. I mostly just look out the window and use an airspeed indicator to make sure I'm not coming in too fast or slow.
I was just landing Piper Cubs this way all day today. Now steering those things on the ground is a real pain, even with real rudder pedals. My taxing skills are pretty weak.
I did a similar thing: my flight sim chair is an Ikea Poang (http://www.ikea.com/us/en/images/products/poang-chair-beige_...) with CH Products throttle and stick attached to the arms with 3M Command tabs. It works amazingly well, especially with a VR headset.
It's a nice solution, I was looking into VESA mounts but eventually I went for this one because it allows me to transition from work to play (and vice versa) in just a few seconds. (And also because eventually I want to get a yoke): http://www.nextlevelracing.com/products/next-level-flight-st...
Can we get a quick review? It looks really interesting but looking around the net I can't find many people talking about it. Does it wobble any? What joystick are you using on it? What kind of chair do you use with it?
(Warthog + Obutto Ozone owner here but thinking of simplifying things)
Yes as the sibling comment says it is very very solid, doesn't wobble at all and the best part is that you fold it and free up your desk in literally less than 10 seconds. Next Level Racing makes expensive stuff but there is absolutely no question about build quality.
I am planning to add a yoke in the centre and a Saitek throttle quadrant, mounted in the "under the desk" configuration (so that it doesn't interfere with the stick) on the right, this way I can have, all on one stand, both configurations for the planes that I like (yoke + right throttle for Cessnas and stick + left throttle for Cubs)
I have also the other stand, made by the same brand, for steering wheel + pedals + shifter and that is extremely high quality too. I could not find a review of the flight stand but I have found one for the racing stand which is very very similar, here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vb_NjZJvb4E
I am using Saitek X52 HOTAS (the silver one, not the Pro version) + Saitek rudder pedals on the flight stand.
On the racing stand I have Logitech G920 + Driving Force shifter + CSIO SKRS add-on (I'm into truck sim).
It's very very solid, I have a friend with this setup for racing (he has the chair + the wheel mount), they are made out of very solid metal (mild steel bars) and weight quite a bit, the chair + the mount weighs like 50KG the mount alone would probably weight 20 you gotta be the rock to make it wobble.
Yes, there is not question about the price difference.
The thing is that my setup has rudder pedals; I wanted something where everything is mounted on and I can just move away, without having to crawl under the desk to take the pedals.
I think it's an ugly looking thing but surprisingly comfortable, had mine for ~5 years, it has a bit of play where the stem fits in the base that I keep meaning to shim out with some aluminium can but have never got around to.
There should be more vehicular cockpit VR games designed for people sitting on a swivel chair. Granted, wireless headsets are going to make the experience of this much better.
These mounts can hold 20KG or more, I don't see a problem 6KG at all, especially since you can always tighten the bolts in the articulating parts further if you are having issues.
I have 42" screens hooked up to similar mounts with VESA adapters you can tilt and swivel them with ease and they stay put.
Do righties use the joystick in the right hand? Or is it British/Aus/Japanese/etc pilots using the shifter in the left hand (taken from right hand drive cars)
Aircrafts with yoke: normally you hold the yoke with the left hand and the throttle with the right hand. If you are in the right seat then it will be the opposite, but traditionally the pilot in command is always seated on the left while the right seat is for the co-pilot (airliners) or for the instructor in training flights.
Planes with stick:
Airbus airliners - same as above i.e. joystick left hand, throttle right hand, unless you are in the co-pilot seat.
Most other aircrafts with a stick, including fighter jets, light aircrafts etc.: joystick right hand, throttle left hand; the joystick can either be on the right side of the pilot, or between legs, in either case you hold it with your right hand since the throttle is on the left.
The other primary control on every aircraft is the rudder, which is always controlled with pedals. Some gaming joysticks can simulate the rudder movements by twisting the joystick on its vertical axis but this is never the case in real life, so if you want realism you will need rudder pedals.
I have tried that type of system in a Thrustmaster model http://www.thrustmaster.com/en_US/products/tflight-hotas-4 (click on media to go to the gallery, the rudder "rocker" is visible in the 3rd-last and 2nd-last picture, on the back of the throttle).
I have to admit that it is slightly better than twisting the stick, but still nowhere near the accuracy of actual rudder pedals.
If you are siting side-by-side in aircraft, most - not all - will have the throttle and related components in the center console, so they aren't duplicated and can be used from both seats. By necessity a pilot in command, seated on the left, will fly with his/her stick in the left hand and right on throttle/everything else. It just happens to be that most civil aircraft cockpits have this configuration. A yoke or side stick can stand in for a center mounted control stick in this configuration and is simply a design factor.
If you are sitting in an aircraft with a single seat operation (i.e., no center console) the throttle will usually be placed somewhere to the left of the pilot, so the controls change - right on the stick and left for the throttle. You'd almost never see anything other than a center stick in this configuration, but there are aircraft with side sticks, like the F-16 and F-22.
There are some exceptions, particularly where side-by-side seating is more specialized and not duplicated. See:
Wasn't the Airbus with joystick on the left hand side of the pilot's seat, rather than yokes centrally located in front of both pilot seats, end up being a contributing factor to the loss of AF447, in that the co-pilot couldn't see what position the pilot had the control stick in?
I think that more importantly they are not coupled, so that the input on one does not show or is felt on the other. It's possible to make simultaneous conflicting inputs and not notice.
From a UX perspective, I think one major factor was that the pilot probably not noticed or forgot that stall protection was disabled due to the sensor faults. In normal law (mode) the pilot pulls back fully to get maximum lift - even near stall. Instead of a stick shaker warning, the aircraft just silently calculates a (reduced) elevator output.
In my opinion this is a design flaw even if it's a convenient feature in normal flight, as a confused or stressed out pilot might follow the normal procedure in a bad situation - which will lead to a stall. As happened at least twice.
A bit off-topic, but for those thinking about buying this chair - its awesome! I've been using it for the past ~4 years and its still very reliable and comfortable. I was moving to another country few years ago and I couldn't bare to get rid of it like rest of my furniture. I ended up driving 1000km with it in the back of my car. It was a hassle but I don't regret it, my back is very happy :)
I've had one for 5 years, and I'd like to offer a different opinion:
I find the foam seat too soft and that my bony ass ends up supported primarily by whatever the bottom of the seat is made of. This isn't terrible, but it isn't great. I weigh about 80kb/175lbs, for whatever that's worth.
I also find that the curve on the back protrudes too far forward at the lower back. If I spend a couple hours in the chair, my back inevitably ends up sore. This is the major problem I have with the chair.
I will say that the chair is sound without the arm rests, so if you aren't an arm rest person (I'm not) you don't need to attach them.
As with many things in life YMMV. Unfortunately, this is a hard one to try out long enough without buying to know whether or not this chair is comfy for you.
ETA: I'm about 182cm/6'1" if anybody is curious. I'm mostly tall in the legs.
I've had one for 4.5 years, and about 2 months ago this problem got bad enough that it started to really bother me, and I looked into what was actually causing it. Turns out the foam is pretty worn out so sitting for a small amount of time compresses it completely. I bought a new chair (lightly used for cheap on craigslist) and I'm back to comfort. I think the is probably the result of any chair with a foam seat, but at the annual price it's hard to beat this chair for value and comfort.
Interesting. I'm about the same weight but slightly shorter, at 177cm. Thats probably why the back curve fits perfectly for me. No issues with the seat either, I always found it pretty firm.
Interesting, I've had many, many chairs in my career and this one, while being very affordable is at the same time one of the worst ones I've had. There is only one I'd say is worse, Herman Miller's Aeron, because it is extremely expensive so it's quality/ergonomics compared to price is just awful. But IKEA's Markus is the second worst in my opinion. The absolute best chair ever is RH Logic.
I second this. Some scandinavian seating brands are IMHO much better than Herman Miller's offerings, which are always recommended in tech circles.
RH is one example. I'm particularly fond of Opsvik's designs, which are sold by Varier and Håg. I think active seating is the way to go, and both the Gravity Balans and the Capisco are masterpieces of this approach.
I've had this chair for the better half of a decade, and I can attest to its reliability.
I don't like everything about the chair, though. The hand rests prevent you from having the keyboard up close in most settings (if you like that), but the worst thing for me is the slight slack that the base has had from the beginning (the whole chair tilts a bit over the base). It almost made me return the chair in the first place, but as the sample model at the local IKEA had the same feature I accepted this as a necessary evil in the price point.
I probably won't buy another one, though – I much prefer firm chairs.
As a tall guy I've used this chair (and it's wider predecessor) for over a decade now and been really happy with it. I've opted for selling it and rebuying a new one when moving countries so I can't speak for longevity though.
Agreed, I've heard pretty horrible things from people (especially as you can't change the armrests) - but I'm 1,90m and the armrests are the perfect height for me.
I just recently got a new chair, but I can still say only good things about IKEA Markus.
I have a different opinion and can't recommend it for the typical HN user. Like a lot of people here, I am a heavier individual, and the chair is only rated for up to 242.5 lbs. While it may support me, I wouldn't risk a hip injury as a result of a failing frame.
Just to add to this: been using it for 6 years. Also no problems. In fact, my cats have scratched it all up, but it still works. I've removed the arm rests as they did not fit under the desk at the height I wanted the chair at.
oh man I was literally just looking at this yesterday.
I really want to pick up a HOTAS setup for Elite and such. I wonder if I can just do something like this wtih the amazon basic chair I have. Only problem is I was considering getting the warthog HOTAS and I bet it's way too heavy for this. On the other hand a T.16000M would work fine.
