> Reddit is huge and there's no real competitor. It's basically a monopoly, in its niche. "Deplatforming" whole groups because of their political views, however nutty, is a very slippery slope. Unless you also support speech you don't like - you don't really support free speech!
Unlike Facebook and Google, which exert truly horrendous amounts of power over very significant aspects of people's lives, Reddit is, fundamentally, just another forum. It even has its older versions open-sourced.
In fact, There are reddit clones where these things are perfectly allowed.
And those clones are cesspits of schizophrenics, fascists, and deeply disturbed people.
To be honest, you could say HN is just another forum (although it's more like a news & comment site with less self-posts by character) but Reddit's place in the social media landscape gives it a lot more power in addition to the loss of a community when it is banned from there.
Fair enough; I shouldn't be broadly generalizing and indeed most people with schizophrenia are far from this. I don't really know of a term to describe the deranged violent lunacy that manifests in those sites though.
I'm happy to say my exposure to literal insanity has been somewhat tapered over the years, so visiting Voat a while back was eye opening to say the least. There are clearly some very mentally ill people using that site. The issue is, they're getting fulfilment and a sense of acceptance via up-votes from 'edge-lords' who enjoy egging people like this on for their own entertainment. I wouldn't be surprised if the feedback-loop that people get from this website has had some influence on the recent shootings over the past few years.
As someone who has dealt with close family members struggling with this horrible affliction, my first thought was to contact Dang and demand your lynching.
To anyone wondering exactly what it looks like when all the people who can't keep from getting banned on Reddit go to the same place, go to voat.com It's tough to take a look and wish everyone was mixed together instead of these people just communicating with each other.
That is why you should not segregate society in "better" and "worse" tiers.
We all understand that there are people that have a negative influence on every network they participate in. The problem is that banning them is not a long term solution and in many cases it only make things worse. It is the easy one, but it makes impossible to build some difficult conversations.
There are also many different kind of communities and forums, HN is very special in this (no subcommunities, strong moderation clearly stated upfront) many are more like tumblr (as the FAQ put it: "Go nuts, show nuts, whatever").
Reddit is effectively used as a second life, with countless smaller groups, weird circles, and unusual communities. In this regard it is the social network most similar to real live.
Second, these are internet forums, not segregating society.
Third, if being around other people like yourself makes things worse, that isn't a problem that other people can solve for you.
Finally, check out voat, incel groups, the_donald, etc. and see if you think it is just a matter of 'difficult conversation'. There is no rationality to conversations in extremist toxic internet forums. People have an emotional investment and frustration that looks far more like mental illness than actual discord.
Agree, but not always in the direction we want or expect
> Second, these are internet forums, not segregating society.
This is an increasingly irrelevant distinction as we move more and more of our political debates over the internet (How often do people talk IRL with people of opposing view?)
> Third, if being around other people like yourself makes things worse, that isn't a problem that other people can solve for you.
Do you believe the same for addiction? Sorry for the strawman, but it is a silly statement.
>Finally, check out voat, incel groups, the_donald, etc. [...] there is no rationality to conversations in extremist toxic internet forums.
That is entirely the point, if you segregate the extremist and the moderate that is exactly what you get.
Yes, banning more people is the solution to the problem caused by banning too many people (the 'too' is important).
Without getting explicitly political it is important to point out that platforms ban people based on the consequences of not banning them. When you have strong external influences (like journalists asking loaded and threatening questions to create their own stories) platforms become a tool of political activists.
Democracy and eager banning people from political discourse (Reddit less, but don't tell me that twitter is not fundamental in that) do not work well together.
Having a place where people tolerate your toxicity is not a legal right, human right or even on Maslow's hierarchy of needs. If people are addicted to being toxic, they will have to accept the consequences of others' reactions.
> Having a place where people tolerate your toxicity is not a legal right
That is true, and also it is not what I argue for.
> If people are addicted to being toxic, they will have to accept the consequences of others' reactions.
Obviously, my problem is that I do not trust this use of toxic.
What I see is contempt for Trump supporters and in general for less mainstream opinion. What I see are journalist that blur the line between what their job should be and explicit political activism with call to actions.
You know what it is that I consider toxic? Actually claiming that a whole section of a demographic is toxic, or too stupid, or just wants to see the world burn.
I have my experience with this, as an Italian I still cannot understand why people voted Berlusconi, yet even worse than another Berlosconi would be being trendy to think "we know better than them, their opinion is second class".
The disconnect here is that you are either ignoring what goes on in these forums or actually don't know.
They are a constant barrage of proganda with a steady stream of new people to hate and immediate bans for anyone who questions if something isn't right or if people are going too far. There is a reason that there is now far more right wing terrorism in the west than from any other group. If you think this is just about 'political opinions' then you are misinformed or severely downplaying the reality of what is going on.
And once again, this is just a forum that isn't going to be linked to internally as much. It wasn't even banned. Why would Reddit activly promote a forum like this? They should have done it a long time ago.
> The disconnect here is that you are either ignoring what goes on in these forums or actually don't know.
My claim is exactly that the situation is as bad as it is exactly for this reason! You can argue this way with everything, if you let a problem fester enough it become easier and easier to claim there is no solution.
> There is a reason that there is now far more right wing terrorism in the west than from any other group.
On the other hand Antifa, who routinely attack minorities and passerby, is often heralded as the defender of justice.
The difference in banning policies for the left and the right is obvious and with non trivial effects.
Honestly I am more worried about how mainstream media is fueling this point of view and turning a blind eye to people calling for political violence.
I do not think I will be able to better communicate my point. There are many factor at play and I must admit that I am not good enough to adequately order them into a coherent argument with enough evidences.
On this topic I rather trust Tim Pool, he is a journalist that often cover this kind of topics.
Unlike Facebook and Google, which exert truly horrendous amounts of power over very significant aspects of people's lives, Reddit is, fundamentally, just another forum. It even has its older versions open-sourced.
In fact, There are reddit clones where these things are perfectly allowed.
And those clones are cesspits of schizophrenics, fascists, and deeply disturbed people.