I used to be obsessed with trying new note taking apps, but I've been the happiest and most productive using Vim and Markdown on my laptop synced via Syncthing to my phone and editing with Markor. I've used Vim for as long as I could program, so I am embarrassed that it took me so long to set this up (a few months ago) but I finally don't care about note taking apps.
Edit: sometimes I print my notes and for that I use the Vim plugin MarkdownPreview to render to the browser, then print there
Me to, then I just stopped. The enabling moment came when I found a free app that backs up Apple Notes in a portable format. I use the iCloud.com web app on my Linux laptops to access notes, and on my copious Apple devices, the Notes app is easy to use.
Some sad history: I spent years carefully making notes and organizing material in Evernote but realized that I spent much more time curating material than ever using it.
The problem I have is Markor's ugly design. I prefer a UI like that of the app "Monospace" (which I don't use, because it isn't open source).
I'm more of a developer than an end user but I still cannot stand apps with odd, "ugly" UI. I get this is mostly subjective though.
Edit: I downloaded Markor just to see again. It's actually not as awful as I remember, I do dislike the primary dark purple however. Otherwise, it's quite decent, I might start using it.
Neuron (https://neuron.zettel.page/) can be useful for this approach - it's purpose is to basically turn folder of Markdown (or Org-mode) notes into static, interlinked page with pretty formatting, tree view and search support. Not only is it great for making reading more pleasant, it works great for building blogs and knowledge bases.
what do you use for syntax highlighting? I have tried a few options but can't quite get what I need. I like url hiding (or is it called folding?) that VimWiki does for md files, but I hate that VimWiki's does not really follow the md standard
Very interesting. This feels like a fusion of my favorite tools: OneNote and Todoist. The command line is a great feature - Todoist executes on it well, also the Outlook app but on macOS only for some reason.
This appears to solve a major gripe with OneNote: it is really hard to style and get things looking like I want them to. It also lacks formatted code display - the whole Office suite is surprisingly very behind here. It’s a shame, since I know at least in the past MS used word for their internal technical documentation, so they should be feeling this pain daily.
The competition is fierce, but the offering appears strong enough to overcome my “it’s just another note taking app, haven’t they heard of OneNote” instinct. As a user I’m hoping that OneNote and Doist will pull an Instagram and copy some or all of these features.
I love using software that inspires me with its design.
If you write the code in Visual Studio and paste it into Word, it preserves Visual Studio formatting. This is what's used instead of putting code formatting into Office.
Exactly, something like Notion that keeps my data encrypted on my iCloud like Bear with native iOS and Mac app similar to Things3. I could easily pay 100 bucks for this kind of setup.
> Recurring monthly: NEVER. [...] Unless this is $9.99 or lower, I would never consider.
And yet, you likely expect regular updates when the OS is updated, a constant stream of bug fixes, and (probably) some improvements. In other words, you expect regular development for a one-time fee of $9.99 or lower.
$9.99 is the cost of about 5 minutes of a skilled programmer's time.
This is not realistic and definitely not sustainable.
One of the worst things mobile did was completely destroy reasonable expectations for software pricing.
Don't get me wrong, it's good that more software is more accessible to more people than ever before, but for a long time we've been at the point where it's very difficult for an app that costs anything up front to succeed on mobile.
The most successful creative mobile app ever, Procreate (the #1 paid app in the iOS App Store) employs about 20 people. Adobe employs over 20,000.
You can say more individual developers are making money (at the expense of individual companies), but with the way things are going, we'll never see industry transforming apps like Illustrator, Ableton Live, After Effects emerge from this model.
The main impact the pricing race to the bottom has had on powerful software is that its shifted from a “one-time price charge to and individual” model, to a “subscription price charged to a company” model, e.g., Adobe CS, Figma, Notion, Office, etc...
I suppose there are people who think this is all well and dandy, but to me it’s the biggest step backwards for innovation in our industry since I started my career.
How much should a note taking app cost? $5 a month? No. Barely $1 a month maybe. I am willing to pay 1 year subscription fee up front.
We have free note apps, asana, microsoft onenote, google keep, evernote, heck I am using the default apps that comes with my phone, or even on windows notepad itself.
How much is a niche note taking app worth to you? To me, one time if super premium and bugfree, I can sacrifice $9 which is way above the apps on the market. Premium camera apps are $4-5 and they are packed with very nice tools. KyPass was $6.99 which is a lifesaver. Strava is free, some sysadmin tools I use are ranging from $2-5 on my phone.
I just can't imagine paying monthly subscription fee for note taking app, even if it comes with task management etc.
That strikes me as a perfectly valid point of view. To me, a niche note-taking app is worth a lot, and I'm happy to pay a lot for it. In fact, I try to avoid apps that don't seem to have a sustainable business plan, as my assumption is they'll either go out of business or get themselves acquired and shelved. Luckily, it seems like there are plenty of options for both of us.
In other words, we expect "others" to pay for us through economies of scale. This might work for top-tier video games, but it definitely does not work for niche software.
Exactly. If you are developing a product you have to make sure that it reaches a sufficient number of people that would pay a certain amount. Number of customers times the price and you get your expected income. If that is too low then don't spend your time on it cause you'll just be losing money.
Consider, if your argument is taken to its absurd extreme, then you would have to pay for full development of any software you use by yourself. Just running Windows or MacOS would cost you millions if not billions of dollars.
Edit, addendum: you can also view it that the money needed for development is then covered distributedly among the customers. Nobody is expecting others to pay for them but the expense is too big for a few customers to cover it (at least for this type of software).
> Exactly. If you are developing a product you have to make sure that it reaches a sufficient number of people that would pay a certain amount. Number of customers times the price and you get your expected income. If that is too low then don't spend your time on it cause you'll just be losing money.
I hope it doesn't come to that. Because then we'd only end up with apps like Fortnite, Adobe Photoshop, and Microsoft Office. All the specialized apps would be gone, and if you need something in an industry that just isn't that large, well tough luck, because at $9.99/app the developers won't ever make a living.
Look, it's fine to only need mass-market apps. But let other people make niche apps and charge an amount that results in sustainable software development, without criticizing them for subscription pricing.
Subscription pricing is the only sustainable way to maintain a niche app.
Pricing isn't based on the labor involved, it's based on supply and demand. Turns out, there's a lot of supply for note taking apps no matter how much labor it takes to make a good one.
These are a convenient fiction, resulting in bloat because of developers trying to cram additional features into their applications, to justify the cost of a version update.
TL;DR: I think this is down to the convergence of some perennial dynamics, and the recent success of apps like Notion, as another commenter alluded to.
I've spent a lot of time thinking about this. As someone for whom research + writing are a primary component of daily work, I'm probably a little too willing to play with new note taking apps :)
I think the recent surge is actually a convergence of several different trends:
1. There's always been a decent volume of new note taking apps, in large part because of how tempting they are as a project. They feel both approachable (until you try to build one), and they're such a familiar-yet-blank canvas that it's incredibly easy to come up with a "tweak" that makes yours different.
2. The love people have for Notion, and the so-far success of the company, have made it a more attractive niche for more serious startup-y people. Where you used to see more solo projects, you're now seeing a decent amount of apps built by full teams.
3. Human nature. While I am the first to evangelize the impact taking better notes can have, it has also been my experience that note taking systems are the ultimate bike shed problem. It's easy to tinker with them and try new apps out, believing that you'll find the perfect system that will unlock your inner genius. I think a lot of project management and productivity software has a similar thing going.
re 1. In my experience, it's often the first vague idea for a school project a teacher will give their students.
Personnally, like many things, I've built a custom script atop git to manage my notes. And another to manage a journal. And another, and another. Just building off of git.
My hypothesis is they are selling "transformation". I think that humans find a lot of meaning from starting fresh with a new method or point of view. This fact drives everything from baptism to Marie Kondo (not equating the two or saying either is stupid).
I think Notion was the first one of the recent bunch, and they created something much better than the standard "Write some text" and since they got traction, others saw that they could do better and have started focusing in that direction.
My first thought too. I feel this is meant to be more chaotic in someway: being able to put all the information raw and rearrange them easily, whereas Notion feels more like documentation, where your data has to fit a template.
Congrats to the team, looks very useful. I was an early customer of the Macaw App from the same creator(s?) and was excited for its development and had deeply integrated it into my projects but they got aquihired then all development stopped and bugs frozen in place... honestly didn't feel good and left me wary of new apps like these. Anyways, hopefully this one has a long bright future.
I have similar thoughts. I don't see how I could trust my notes to someone else, besides the obvious privacy implications I just don't feel like it makes sense to rely on someone else for something important like this. I want the data on my computer, and I want to be able to use the version of the software I like and not be forced to update to increasingly awful garbage as they try desperately to grow enough for an IPO or whatever the fuck. Yes, I am still very bitter about Evernote, why do you ask?
It looks very pretty, but leaves me wondering what is the problem I’d have where Clover is better than other note-taking apps?
This is a common problem with product landing pages like these. They show off some cool features but don’t do a good job connecting them together as a clear vision that demonstrates insight about the intended users’ situation.
My best Markdown experience so far on iPad is with Working Copy. It is primarily a Git client.
The preview mode handles pictures well, but for editing you are stuck with a basic code editor. Using the preview mode I can even navigate to other notes in the same repository via links in the notes.
Might not work for your use case. If it sounds interesting, give it a try.
"Well thought out"? There are TWO features listed, some kind of non-straight line writing thing, and the ability to change color. No mention of literally anything else - like, if your notes are stored in accessible format offline or if they are lost when the business goes belly up.
Never, ever take notes into a proprietary cloud silo!
I'm not saying that Clover is incredible or that your "proprietary cloud silo" paradigm is incorrect, but saying the app mentions literally nothing else is a bit of a stretch.
I went looking for these things you claim are there, and you're right! They are hidden in the screenshots without nary a mention!
This is what the website SAYS:
"What if we had a tool that could work in straight lines or… well… not straight lines? [...] We built a new style of text editor from the ground up to better support creative thinking. Clover lets you explode traditional documents and work in a more free-form manner for better brainstorming, mind-mapping, and exploration."
Notice the difference between what YOU said, and what the WEBSITE says? You produced a useful list of features; the website blabbers in incomprehensible marketing-speak.
I also look forward to trying it out :) I'm not committing to taking all my important notes into it, but I'm interested in the product. Maybe I'm naïve, but I think there's progress to be made on the front of proactive note-taking apps, and I'm excited to see what this app has to offer.
