But if you refuse to pay the fine on the grounds that you consider it unethical to withhold medical care from someone who requests it, you’d still be subject to incarceration?
Replying here because rate limiting, and I find this conversation interesting :)
> it may not be a legal defense but it is absolutely a moral defense.
I suppose that's so.
> I just want to make it explicit that you agree with the criminalization of healing people without permission.
By framing your reply as "criminalization of healing people without permission" you have baked in a lot of unstated assumptions:
1. The person doing the 'healing' has met your personal standard for a 'healer' - in this case foreign experience. Without licensing, I could, with no experience whatsoever, just cut you open and go to town. You would die, and then what? Who's liable? What if I get half way through and then realize that Milton Bradley's Operation is not a replacement for Grey's Anatomy and you are rushed to a real hospital?
2. You assume the 'healing' is successful. Does it become butchering if I fail to do so?
So, to that end, while I may not agree with all aspects of licensing physicians (for instance, I'm with you on the foreign degree and experience limitations) I believe that on the whole it does more good than harm.
I will therefore be explicit and say, yes, I do "agree with the criminalization of healing people without permission [of competent authorities]," even if I do not today agree with all of their requirements, however I reject your framing.
> The person doing the 'healing' has met your personal standard for a 'healer' - in this case foreign experience.
I'm not imposing my standards for a healer on a sick person in his personal quest for a healer.
> Without licensing, I could, with no experience whatsoever, just cut you open and go to town.
Indeed, you could do the same thing absent a license in a regulated regime, and also you could get a license and kill me on purpose and say it was an accident or unfortunate outcome. What the requirement for a license does is create a class of people who are approved healers, and criminalize medicine outside of that state-sponsored context.
> You would die, and then what? Who's liable?
You'd be liable, just like you would if there were licenses and you either had one or did not. Or are you referring to the fact that physicians are shielded from liability if they meet industry accepted standards of care?
> You assume the 'healing' is successful. Does it become butchering if I fail to do so?
I don't assume that. I'm just referring to the telos of the act. You're allowed to give people free tattoos. You're not allowed to give them a tattoo if you claim it is medicine. It doesn't matter if its a drug or whatever. The intent to heal is what's criminalized here.
> So, to that end, while I may not agree with all aspects of licensing physicians (for instance, I'm with you on the foreign degree and experience limitations) I believe that on the whole it does more good than harm.
The problem arises when you enforce your values on other people who do not share those values because of your belief that "on the whole it does more good than harm."
> I will therefore be explicit and say, yes, I do "agree with the criminalization of healing people without permission [of competent authorities]," even if I do not today agree with all of their requirements, however I reject your framing.
Thanks for your reply and thanks for engaging my perspective directly :)
This situation exists today. Let's say I'm a physician, with experience from a foreign country and a years-long unimpeachable track record. What I don't have is a US degree or residency. I'm 100% going to prison if I perform a surgery in my van. Licensing and various other requirements are imposed on physicians in order to practice lawfully. One of those requirements would be not to accept direct payment for services outside the public system. If you do, then you are practicing without a license, and whatever comes of that comes of it. Likely a fine, or license suspension or if you continue to defy the law, prison.
Your argument that "you consider it unethical to withhold medical care from someone who requests it" is not a defense today for practicing medicine without a license, and in my scenario, that would not change.
> This situation exists today. If I'm an physician, with experience from a foreign country and a years-long unimpeachable track record. What I don't have is a US degree or residency. I'm 100% going to prison if I perform a surgery in my van.
I agree and this is terrible.
> Your argument that "you consider it unethical to withhold medical care from someone who requests it" is not a defense today for practicing medicine without a license,
it may not be a legal defense but it is absolutely a moral defense.
> in my scenario, that would not change.
I just want to make it explicit that you agree with the criminalization of healing people without permission.
