Because it's a slippery slope to collective punishment.
"This is a telling slip; Lewy is talking about ‘the Armenians’ as if the defenceless women and children who comprised the deportation columns were vicariously responsible for Armenian rebels in other parts of the country. The collective guilt accusation is unacceptable in scholarship, let alone in normal discourse and is, I think, one of the key ingredients in genocidal thinking. It fails to distinguish between combatants and non-combatants, on which international humanitarian law has been insisting for over a hundred years now." [0]
Collective responsibility seems to have worked for post-WW2 Germany though. And made the society as a whole stronger.
Denying visas is not "failing to recognize between combatants and non-combatants". It is denying a privilege that the russian government has messed up for their own citizens. EU or USA don't owe you anything. The russian government does.
Personally, I have zero interest in letting someone into my country for them later to claim that learning my language is "nazism".
You asked what's wrong with 'collective guilt' and I answered that using this justification is the slippery slope towards "collective punishment" that includes "failing to recognize between combatants and non-combatants". I never said that denying visas is "failing to recognize between combatants and non-combatants".
But I can give you an example: I've seen many times the calls to stop the export of medicaments to Russia thus killing or disabling most vulnerable civilians [0].
> Denying visas is not "failing to recognize between combatants and non-combatants". It is denying a privilege that the russian government has messed up for their own citizens. EU or USA don't owe you anything. The russian government does.
I'm not interested in talking about collective guilt until you acknowledge how it impacted Germany. Everything else is just you whining about loosing your privilege.
It 'reeducated' Germans in profound way, but before that it led to a lot of war crimes towards civilian German population.
Now, where is collective Ukrainian guilt for the genocide of Poles and Jews during WW2 on part of Ukrainian Insurgent Army? Looks like it's absent, Ukrainian ambassador to Germany compared Bandera with Robin Hood to the disgust of Germans, Poles and Jews. [0]
I gave you this link as a source for the statement of the Ukrainian envoy in Germany about Bandera being like Robin Hood.
Perhaps, you will like Israeli [0] and German [1] news more.
"The statement made by the Ukrainian ambassador is a distortion of the historical facts, belittles the Holocaust and is an insult to those who were murdered by Bandera and his people," the Israeli embassy said.
Polish deputy Foreign Minister Marcin Przydacz wrote on a local online platform that "such an opinion and such words are absolutely unacceptable."
And if you want historical information about Ukrainian Insurgent Army, I gave you wikipedia link in another comment here.
Wait, so you're just going to ignore each point of mine every time I give you evidence and switch to something else? Because right now it looks to me like you're saying "Ignore what you know, pay attention only to the articles I cherry pick for you".
Kind of like calling Bandera's collaboration with the Abwehr "nazism", but pretending that it wasn't nazism or even nazi-collaboration, when Stalin signed a pact with Hitler to divide Europe and conducted joint military invasion of Poland in full knowledge of what will happen to the Jewish population there...
No visas until you guys work on your own self-awareness! :D
P.S. Just to make it a bit easier for you, because I suspect The Cult of the 9th Of May is interfering here, but Ukrainians understand that history is not a Marvel movie - heroes can be flawed to say the least. Just because OUN/UPAs actions were criminal against Poles and Jews doesn't negate the fact that their fight against the Nazis and russians were heroic. THAT'S HOW BAD YOU GUYS WERE.
"you're just going to ignore each point of mine every time I give you evidence and switch to something else"
Quite the opposite, I keep the conversation on track and ignore your sealioning [0]. You can't possibly be ignorant about the fate of German civilians when war moved to German territory. Especially about 'which war' was it.
"their fight against the Nazis ... were heroic"
OUN/UPA didn't really fight Germany. [1]
"Just because OUN/UPAs actions were criminal against Poles and Jews"
I'll ask again, my country (USA) has killed millions of innocent people since 1991. If we're keeping tally, that's a whole lot more than the modern Russian state in the same time period.
Should Americans (including me) collectively be punished for this (of those of us like me who were actively against it)?
Is the EU at war with Russia? Maybe you should stop buying Russian oil and gas right now? Trading with the enemy, you know. Financing Putin's government.
Don't the russians claim they are at war with whole of NATO? And by the way, thank you for this push, now we'll finally ween Germany of its russian gas dependency.
