I get 12-14mpg, which is the same as a modern SUV. Is it safe? It met the safety standards in place when it was new. And that's good enough for me. Emissions? I haven't had to do an emissions test in over a decade. It has a working catalytic converter, so there you go.
Death trap? Ha. Nice labeling there. And I didn't say that driving my rig was a virtue. I said I drive it because the US lacks vehicles that match the simplicity of the 70 series Land Cruisers in TFA, and this is as about as close as one can get these days.
> I get 12-14mpg, which is the same as a modern SUV
A comparable modern SUV (2022 Suburban) gets 21 city/27 highway, pretty close to double the mileage you get.
> It met the safety standards in place when it was new
The class was made and marketed to evade passenger auto safety and CAFE standards, and the government hadn’t closed the gaps it exploited yet in 1988, so that means nothing.
Unless you drive a manual, then its a good 5mpg higher at least in my experience. I don't know how the epa tests manual cars but they are clearly not engine braking.
I drive a Subaru Forester and I get higher mileage than the EPA. Last night I drove from LA to SF and got 31 mpg on the freeway going (according to the on-board mileage monitor), in two sections, 140 mi in 2 h 8 min and then 190 mi in 3 h 1 min once I was outside LA, inclusive of a 15 min circling the SFO arrivals to pick up a friend.
Interesting, though, is how hard this drops off. I once did a 280 drive at 3 AM that I ran at between 90 mph and 100 mph almost throughout. And the dash readout was 19 mpg (oof!).
Is there an OBD tool with GPS I can use to track this stuff? I really like it.
My personal empty tank to empty tank mileage is 21.5 km/l (50 mpg) in the city streets of Madras, India in an ancient Maruti 800! The top speed that thing could hit was 68 mpg (which I only ever approached once and never in the city).
>>A comparable modern SUV (2022 Suburban) gets 21 city/27 highway, pretty close to double the mileage you get.
Now find a real life 2022 Suburban owner that actually gets anywhere near that lab tested mileage. So while I am sure it get better than 12-14, probably closer to 18 in reality but they do that with smaller engines and tubro's which anyone that has any knowledge of mechanical wear will tell you a turbo (or any boosted) engine will wear out ALOT faster than a naturally aspirated engine.
It is unlikely a 2022 Suburban;s engine will be running at all in 30 years. hell I would bet it will implode before 15 years
> Now find a real life 2022 Suburban owner that actually gets anywhere near that lab tested mileage. So while I am sure it get better than 12-14, probably closer to 18 in reality
Sure, EPA ratings are inflated but you probably get close to 1 mpg over the combined EPA mileage rating of the most efficient version of the 1988 Suburban (and 50% more than your claim before you inflated it once conparative numbers were introduced) in yours. Right...
> they do that with smaller engines and tubro's
A naturally aspirated 5.3L, no turbos. Its true that one of the 1988s had a 6.2L, but...
First I think you have confused me with the Grand Parent Commentor.
That said I did go look up the Specs for a 2022, and I have no idea where you got 21/27mpg anyway, the best Chevy lists is 20 Highway with the 6.2L which drops to 14mpg in city because the Active Fuel Management does nothing for city driving
Then their is a 5.3L which most suburbans will be outfitted with, which is 15/19 MPG, which as you already conceded is inflated so a real person will likely see 13-14 City and 17-18 Highway in real world, and after 10 years I of ownership I would expect that to drop of to around where the Grand parent claims their 30 year old suburban is at anyway
Gas Suburban small v8 is 15/20, which is better than the 88, but still abysmal in general. Previous year Toyota Sequoia (more comparable than a cruiser), got a combined 15mpg, which is what I generally get in a decade old Tundra. The 23 models from Toyota have a hybrid with a turbo and are rated 21/24, which is still pretty bad. I'd personally love an electric truck, but I don't have 80k sitting around for one at the moment.
While the wrenching crowd still has some time, I do wonder how long gas vehicles will be a viable option. A gas station near me just got razed, my wife has an EV, and at some point it won't be profitable to maintain all the gas stations we have.
Where I grew up my parents had their own 300 gallon gas tank, because you couldn't buy gas for many miles around. Nowadays not even sure how possible that is in some areas, as I am sure there is more regulation. Several of the filling stations around at the time also went out of business as they had to mitigate the leaks from underground tanks. There will be a point where it starts to become quite onerous to own a gas vehicle, just not sure when that point is.
Well I can replace your anecdote with mine as there are new gas stations being built all around me because I am in a Growing population zone, with suburban sprawl and lots of economic activity where using a car is required.
In metro's, or states / cities with net population loss I can see where service businesses of all type including gas stations would start ceasing operations as profitability drops
In my area not only are new stations being built many of them are putting in Fast Chargers for BEV's so the idea that the filling station model will just go under is premature as well, they will adapt. Fuel is the least profitable item they sell anyway, they make money on the convince store and or food. In many ways the longer charging times for DC Fast charging could be a boom for the convenience stores that adapt to having something for people to look at and buy while their car is charging. I.e Good Clean Bathroom, Well stocked food / snacks, maybe a game room, etc
Even then most stations are multi fuel, so the have Gas, Diesel, Kerosene, some even have propane or natgas. I think we will see more stations expand on that model as well.
even if the everyday car goes BEV, Diesel Trucks are not going away anytime soon so they will still need stations.
So lets do some math, The largest and most popular US Manufacture of Vehicles, Ford as a target of 40% of sales to be BEV by 2030, some EU manufacturers want to go all BEV by 2030 which I thing is aggressive and likely will not happen.
But lets say Ford target is correct and 40-50% of Vehicle sold in 2030 will be BEV's. Modern gas cars due to their complexity have a shorter economic / serviceable life to around 15 years. So cars sold in 2030 are going to be on the road still in 2045. So that is 2 decades and we are only at 50% reduction in Gas cars. Given the other factors above I dont that that would translate to a 50% reduction in Filling station, probably more like 10-15% as they adapt to BEV and expand into other offerings
>The size of the Suburban is considerably larger than the Land Cruiser.
Ok, and? The comment i was responding to was comparing a 1988 Suburban to a 2022 Suburban,
The fact that chevy makes smaller SUV's that are more inline with a Land Cruiser that also get batter mileage has no relevance to the comments I was replying to
> It met the safety standards in place when it was new. And that's good enough for me.
That would never be good enough for me these days. I got rid of a ~20 year old car a couple years ago, and the primary reason was that it was so out of date safety-wise. Cars really have made leaps and bounds in safety over the past couple decades, and it shows up in the stats. I wouldn't call my old car a "death trap", but it just couldn't compare with modern cars when it comes to safety features.
As someone who likes the RAV4, I'd point out that it's considerably smaller than a full size body-on-frame SUV like a Suburban. It's more like a lifted Corolla, or maybe Camry. Oddly enough, they now actually make a lifted Corolla. The dimensions are quite similar.
Not the same thing. the Suburban is a Full Frame massive vehicle capable of towing medium sized loads, haul alot of cargo, or alot of people
The RAV4 is a compact unibody vehicle capable of really no towing (though people will try), seats only 4 (uncomfortably if they are average American Adult size, only 2 Adults can fit comfortably in a Rav4)
While they both may be technically "SUV's" it is laughable to think they service the same need
> While they both may be technically "SUV's" it is laughable to think they service the same need
They service the same need a lot more often than you'd think: transportation for a segment of the public who'd be better off with station wagons but decided in the mid eighties those were not cool.
> seats only 4 (uncomfortably if they are average American Adult size, only 2 Adults can fit comfortably in a Rav4)
Interestingly a RAV4 Hybrid with about 2500 lb total cargo including trailer gets around 28-30 mpg. The newer hybrid transaxles (P710 etc) are mechanically surprisingly simple and I could see a future where they become the preferred replacement for an all-mechanical system.
Well certainly not the same as a tiny hybrid, obviously. But, to your point, a 2023 Suburban gets 20+mpg. So there's that. It also costs $57,000 and <hyperbole> has more computers in it than a small data center </hyperbole>
I checked a few local car retailers in Ireland. First, there are very few SUVs being sold that aren't at least hybrid, and full electrics dominate the 2022 lineups. Secondly, the absolute worst I saw was a BMW X5 M. This is a large car by Irish standards, and is marketed for performance, not efficiency. It costs €213,000 as a result. It gets 18mpg. Most are in the 50mpg area
Death trap? Ha. Nice labeling there. And I didn't say that driving my rig was a virtue. I said I drive it because the US lacks vehicles that match the simplicity of the 70 series Land Cruisers in TFA, and this is as about as close as one can get these days.