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Residential electricity is not that hard, the main issue is that the trade makes it harder than it should be by sticking to outdated practices: my dad who did a lot of electrical back in France always laugh at me when I tell him people still use EMT or wire nuts (seriously guys, wire nuts are literally illegal in France by code, and lever nuts and screw nuts are so much easier), and is scared that we don't have GFCIs/RCDs before our main breaker here.

A lot of it is market capture by established trade folks.



GFCI receptacles have been required in many locations by code going on four decades. Practically speaking IDK if there's a huge safety difference between having the interrupter in the breaker or receptacle. Regardless of where they're installed GFCIs in the US trip at a much lower current (~5 mA) than those in Europe (~30 mA). As well GFCI receptacles here are often wired up so that they protect downstream receptacles, which I think may be uncommon in Europe? In terms of safety there's plenty of stuff that makes me uncomfortable, but using GFCI receptacles instead of breakers doesn't.

  A lot of it is market capture by established trade folks.
In terms of GFCIs and wire nuts, no, I don't think so. The cost is dramatically lower for wire nuts and GFCI receptacles than for GFCI/RCD breakers and lever nuts. I just picked up a ten pack of Wago lever nuts at Home Depot for $7 – Grainger/Zoro recently stopped carrying Wagos. Wire nuts are way cheaper and easier to find. For small jobs it's not a big deal but for a larger one it adds up. For a low/no vibration environment wire nuts can be done completely safely (pull test!), but are not as foolproof as lever nuts.

If anything I'd say that there's regulatory capture from the manufacturers, take a look at the price of a breaker with an arc fault interrupter (now required by code on most circuits) and the litany of complaints about nuisance tripping and power draw.


> GFCI receptacles have been required in many locations by code going on four decades

Yeah but receptacles protect the user of the circuit, not the circuit itself / someone working on it. Plus you’re not protected on all the circuits where it’s not required by code. One RCD at the main is a lot smarter and more cost effective. Not to mention easier to mandate retrofits for, whereas somehow we’ve accepted in the US that tons of kids live in houses where there’s both no GFCI in the outlets in their room and no tamper resistant devices, it’s ridiculous.

> The cost is dramatically lower for wire nuts and GFCI receptacles than for GFCI/RCD breakers and lever nuts. I just picked up a ten pack of Wago lever nuts at Home Depot for $7 – Grainger/Zoro recently stopped carrying Wagos

Yeah you’re saving 0.2-0.3$ a pop (they cost around 0.4$ a pop if you buy them online by the 50s, I assume supply houses are cheaper) at the cost of much more time spent twisting, time troubleshooting later and worse health from having to twist those wire nuts for your entire career.

> If anything I'd say that there's regulatory capture from the manufacturers, take a look at the price of a breaker with an arc fault interrupter

Main breaker RCD is obviously the cost effective option :)


I had an AFCI breaker constantly tripping when put under load.

I went through and replaced every receptacle in the circuit (everything in the house is nasty stuff from the 1950s). Still tripped constantly.

Opened up every box going back to the breaker, took everything apart, but a test outlet with a test load on each junction and it was "fine" until I put it all back together and started tripping again (replaced the wire nuts, pull tested each junction).

Opened up every junction again, replaced every junction with wagos, and no more "nuisance" trips (they were clearly not nuisance trips, though every electrician said "they all do that I just replace the AFCI breaker when the inspector finishes, I'd do that here if you wanted me to fix the nuisance trips here")

But of course, I don't pay (money) for my own time... and fixing this wasn't fast.


Sure, there was an actual problem, but was it a problem that would (eventually) cause a fire? Something something not letting perfection be the enemy of good enough. I think arc fault interrupters are a great idea that's not ready for prime time.

I was reading something on a more trades oriented forum where someone asserted that recent updates to the AFCI breakers reduced "nuisance" trips at the expense of actually tripping when there is a legit arc fault. I've no idea how true that is but it's worth noting that GFCIs have been around since the 70s, were worked into the NEC by the 80s, and are comparatively far more mature. AFCI breakers… are not and they have fucking firmware on them that requires periodic updates.

With your house I wonder how much was not the wire nuts. Could some of those older receptacles have been contributing to the problems?

Without anything more than handwaving and emotion to go on I'd rather see aluminum wiring and back stab receptacles get banned along with some sort of push to get rid of the current installs.


Each step took some part of a weekend; there were typically several months between each step

State: 1970s house weirdly full of pre-1970s outlets (probably using whatever the builder could get on the cheap). "Basement" bedrooms have AFCI that trips when using an 8 amp space heater. Circuit breaker is a generic "Fit any panel" model not specifically made for the panel. Outlets wired with a devil-may-care attitude where hot and neutral were both regarded as "makes sparks" and no outlets had grounds. Even though the branch is in a basement area and ends in a bathroom with an outlet right above a sink, there's no GFCI.

* replace all the outlets in the circuit, put GFCI outlet on first outlet in the circuit. (still tripped with space heater); GFCI doesn't trip except when tested.

* switch circuit to another AFCI circuit; fault follows circuit not circuit

* switch back to AFCI, open up boxes between last outlet and breaker and test with a test outlet off each box/junction I can find; can't make it trip; I did reuse the wire nuts; Fixed!)

many many months go by

* trips under load again

* get another AFCI breaker (15 instead of 20A; yes I downsized even though it was tripping -- I didn't think it was tripping from load and I wanted some buffer against the potential there were 14ga wires in the branch) and a bag of wago connectors (for another project). Replaced the breaker -- still randomly tripped but wasn't surprised. (I found an electric supply place only 20 minutes drive away that had the correct siemens breaker style, and finally had free time when they were open!)

* open up boxes (again) and replace wire nuts with left-over wago connectors from prior project. That fixed the problem.

Now -- the flaky junction was in a steel junction box, but that box was nailed into a rafter against the ceiling. Could it have caught fire? Maybe? It was a 20A circuit, with 12gauge wire. I'll say yeah, it could have started at least smoking if it'd been on a dumb breaker.


Are there a significantly larger number of people who die by electrocution (GFCI concern) or electrical fires (wirenut concern) in the US/Canada versus France?




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