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Unix Koans (prirai.github.io)
203 points by nimbius on May 6, 2023 | hide | past | favorite | 42 comments




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Why? The author might be a vile racist, but his site is the source for this collection. The link posted here just strips the editor's introduction[0] which I personally found valuable.

[0]: http://catb.org/~esr/writings/unix-koans/introduction.html


Regardless of the merits of the material and its author, I think the primary site, if anything, should be used.

If you find this valuable/entertaining enough to read then read it at the original URL.

If you find the author vile and/or the material not worth the time, linking to a ripped off copy of it doesn't make things better.


Because of the paradox of tolerance, and because you might not wanna connect to an extremist's website. You could argue you don't wanna read their writings either but AFAICT the writing is solid.


ESR is explicitly anti-racist and always has been from what I've seen, so this is a very confusing post.


He's long passed into the "live long enough to see yourself become the villain" phase. He holds views on racial politics and race-intelligence issues whose evidence chain has been provably traced to "white-shoe racists", racist thinkers like Charles Murray with a patina of intellectualism and scientific rigor.


Links to actual villainy would be convincing. You know what isn’t? Claims that he espouses opinions which was also held by some other person who might have been bad in some way.


[flagged]


https://www.cnn.com/2019/03/29/us/splc-leadership-crisis/ind...

http://esr.ibiblio.org/?p=4278

It's really telling that you included the bit about guns and gun rights in support of your assertion that he's racist. It reads more like you're upset with his politics overall?


[flagged]


> So you tolerate his racism because you like his politics? Or is tolerating racism part of your politics too?

From the start this thread is because I questioned the description of him as a racist, so I clearly don't believe he's a racist. Tolerating racism is very much not a part of my politics, or your accusation of him being a racist wouldn't bother me in the slightest. Obviously.

Still not sure why you've consistently tried to cast phrases that disagree with you politically but have absolutely no bearing to race as racist in tone, somehow. At least this last set of quotes, minus the context, facially _appear_ to be racist. That's an improvement! I couldn't substantiate the first couple. He could plausibly have just made the originals disappear, but at this point I'm losing interest. If he was a racist, and a presumably unapologetic one, why is it not in his blog, and why is his blog in stark contrast to your claims?


(More related discussion) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15513074

http://esr.ibiblio.org/?p=142 http://esr.ibiblio.org/?p=4994 Note the page numbers of those URLs. From the first one:

""" Let’s start with a strict and careful definition: A racist is a person who makes unjustified assumptions about the behavior or character of individuals based on beliefs about group racial differences.

I think racism, in this sense, is an unequivocally bad thing. I think most decent human beings would agree with me. But if we’re going to define racism as a bad thing, then it has to be a behavior based on unjustified assumptions, because otherwise there could be times when the fear of an accusation of racism could prevent people from seeking or speaking the truth.

There are looser definitions abroad. Some people think it is racist merely to believe there are significant differences between racial groups. But that is an abuse of the term, because it means that believing the objective truth, without any intent to use it to prejudge individuals, can make you a racist. """

You're continuing to act as if you hate his politics and refuse to read what he writes in good faith, and fail to cite quotes. I guess from the previous discussions this is a pet project of yours. Calling out problems and explicitly trying to figure out solutions where everyone is on equal footing is the opposite of racism.

For my own pet project: Public school systems are failing to teach effectively but it disproportionately impacts minorities due to systemic income inequality (suburbs with 'good schools' being richer). (My mom thinks this is done on purpose and stems from old-school racists still upset about desegregation, and lately I think she's right - too many inner city schools are turning people out without even the ability to read for it to be an accident.) In your worldview, ESR would be giddy about this and want it to continue. Does that really seem like something he would agree with, to you?

From my reading of his blog, I can't really see my way to a world where he would. He seems like a libertarian/egalitarian that would want to improve education for everyone, so it's very difficult to see how you're getting to your conclusions, nevermind try them on for size.


Calling people racist is hateful.

Even if they are racist.

Let's love and not hate. don't make it worse by adding hatred to an already awful situation.

“You cannot solve a problem with the same mind that created it." - Albert Einstein


Hate the racism, not the racist! I agree. All we need is love, for fuck's sake.


Why ?

Are we living in a world now where if one part of someone sucks we assume that everything from that person is evil ?

Is that how tribal we're going ?


It seems only people who are loaded up on current buzzwords to be upset about are like that. On both sides.

Well adjusted people are able to overlook an offense.

"A person’s wisdom yields patience; it is to one’s glory to overlook an offense." - Proverbs 19:11


What kind of mentality could this post be described as?

Calling people racist is hateful.

Lets love and not hate.


I love these. Maybe someone can help me locate a hacker koan I once read, but can't seem to find anywhere... it was a particularly humorous dig at java-style object oriented programming in a corporate environment; the novice spends their day lugging an object all through the corporation, peeling off layer after layer, only to find an empty method returning nothing.

Somehow I can't find it, or the collection it was in, anywhere... maybe this rings a bell with anyone.



Oh yes, that's the one! Thank you so much!


Loved it. Thanks for finding this and to OP for sending you on its trail :-)


Somewhere in here I think

http://thecodelesscode.com/contents


Thanks! Many more forgotten gems in there, too..!


Seems similar to this: http://www.mit.edu/~xela/tao.html

Wish there was a hard copy. Would make a great goofy gift for coworkers.



Hard copy of that page has ISBN 0-931137-07-1: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Tao_of_Programming


> “And how many hours would you require to implement and debug that C program?” asked Nubi.

How about "How many hours would you require to write the shell script so that it handles all allowed file names appropriately?". As far as I am concerned the classes of errors are certainly different, but shell scripts have their own pitfalls.

Just yesterday I came across a one-liner that didn't work as soon as the filename had a space in the filename.


Then you are not using enough quotes in your shell scripts.


Most people know about quotes to handle spaces. The real trick is to handle file names which start with a hyphen.

(And if you really want to level up, write your scripts to handle file names with embedded newlines.)


Yeah… I just pull up Finder and delete it there.


the script or the input file? :)


If you go to that website and then back to hn, the hn background looks blue.



I don't get Master Foo Discourses on the Two Paths. "Three pounds of VAX!" Anyone?


The original koan has a monk asking "What is Buddha?" With the Master's response being "This flax weighs 3 pounds", referring to the flax in his garment. The koan is intended to point out the practical nature of the Buddhist religion. Buddha to the master is all the things he does as part of his worship, and there are practical aspects to that worship such as buying 3 lb of flax. "Buddha is as Buddha does".

Unix nature being "3 lb of VAX", the most popular hardware running Unix at the time, suggests that practicality is more important than idealistic purism. Tigers like to stay on the ground but sometimes they jump in the air so saying "tigers are creatures of the ground" have exceptions that make sense. A similar idea applies to eagles. These exceptions are part of nature.

Exceptions to the rule in favor of practicality are okay and still make sense. These exceptions are still part of Unix nature.


Restating the koan: The UNIX way values both simplicity of implementation and correct behaviour in all circumstances. These values are often in tension. You must not follow these values blindly. They apply only at the right time.


I know the traditional Unix worse-is-better philosophy holds simplicity of implementation as a higher goal than consistency of interface. I don't know how that ties into tigers and VAXen, though.


It comes from a famous koan. Google "three pounds of flax".


I read a similarly themed koan recently where the novice wants to do various things with the shell, and the master tells him that's not what shell is for, and at the end the novice proposes something in exasperation which is essentially to use pipes to combine a bunch of commands, and the master say yes, use shell for that. I may be getting parts of it wrong. Csn anyone point me to this one? I can't find it.



That was a great read. Very fun. And wise.


Sounds very wise.


is < this | the > way


Nice!




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