Hacker News new | past | comments | ask | show | jobs | submit login

Truly the worst thing about living in Germany is the apparent national hobby of complaining about things that perhaps aren't great, but really aren't as bad as you might think.

In practice, German schools are pretty decent, but they obsess about PISA scores and so neglect to ever notice what the schools are doing well. The train networks are fairly extensive, can be quite cheap depending on how you travel, and consistent across the country, but a lot of Germans would much rather complain about how late they are than recognise anything positive about the system. The general public transport networks (i.e. transport inside towns and cities) are amazing, and one of the things that I would most miss if I went anywhere else.

I think part of it is just that if you're German, you rarely see these systems from an outside perspective, so you only see the points that chafe regularly. But another part of it really is just that German tendency to criticise first rather than to view things holistically.




I disagree heavily. Just because you have trains going everywhere (that's not a Germany-specific thing) doesn't mean they are allowed to be hours late. The transport system is broken, was destroyed by trying to cut costs in the past.

Same with schools and educators. And don't get me started on healthcare.

Your sentiment is part of the problem to be honest: Germans are always complaining, it's fine as it is bla bla. It is if you compare yourself to third world countries. But we compete with Japan, Switzerland, the nordics and so on. Also note that this is not a sentiment that is only found in Germans but also a lot of (high value) immigrants who move on after touching base. Germany has a lot of potential but utilizes that very little.

Why would I recognize anything positive about the transport system that has a high likelihood of making my trip a nightmare? It's literally the most important thing, to get me from a to b. That doesn't work with massive delays, cancellations, reschedulings and I miss my connections.


For what it’s worth, I’m German and live in Sweden and the train network is significantly worse than in Germany.

There are serious structural deficiencies at Deutsche Bahn, absolutely. But the gras is also always greener elsewhere. The nordics don’t have a better train network.

It’s bad enough in Sweden that a Chinese company has started offering the MTRX, basically the ICE equivalent between the two largest cities (although much slower, more like an IC) and that’s the best connection you can get. Imagine the outcry if that was the case in Germany for Munich-Berlin…


So I've heard. I once did a train trip vom Braunschweig to Narvik. Braunschweig to Hamburg was typical: the waggon I had a reservation in was not provided. So the train was not only late but overfilled. The danish train again from Hamburg to Kopenhagen was perfect.

The polar express from Stockholm to Narvik was awesome. On the trip down we had problems with construction and ice, so we were stranded in Abisko. We were taken with buses to a hotel, got food and even got a refund + 700skr deduction for our next trip. No questions asked. The experience was the opposite of the one you get in Germany. No bureaucracy. We got the SMS after Riksgränsen!

The next day I couldn't make my original train from Stockholm to Kopenhagen, so the train conductor just got me a new ticket for free. No questions asked. No bureaucracy.

Clear communication, situation well handled, all good. So at least this part blew my mind! Also the ticket control by just checking seats. Awesome.


I'm comparing this mostly to the UK, which is not a third world country. And to be clear, I agree that DB have been absolutely awful with delays and a lack of proper track maintenance.

But to present that as a full picture of the German transport system is to be completely myopic, and that's the issue. Yes, improvement is possible and necessary, but it's also nice to celebrate the successes of your country, and having a single system that covers pretty much all of the country, that integrates regional and intercity travel, that has a transparent and reasonably cost-effective pricing structure, that includes deals like the Länder-Tickets and the 49€ ticket, that is clean, and many other things besides feels like a success to me.

Do there need to be changes and improvements? Yes, of course! But this sort of self-flagellation ("oh woe is us, our transport system isn't perfect") is really tiring.


> I'm comparing this mostly to the UK, which is not a third world country.

I'm not so sure at this point. Comparing ourselves to the UK would be sad tbh.

Yes the 49€ ticket is a nice achievement. But again, it's not about having a perfect transport system. It's having one that is representative to our position in the world, our wealth etc. Buses are something of a gamble. Trains are notoriously unreliable. The same goes for a lot of regional/local providers. That's basic. Things like nice seatings, luxuries, food etc. would make it perfect. But you need to cover the basics first.


My problem with Germany at the moment isn't that it's objectively so bad - although you can certainly find places where certain things run better, such as Switzerland - but that it's getting worse and that for the last two decades, very little has been done politically to modernise. People and politics are happy with the status quo, not realising that in a changing world, the status quo isn't just going to maintain itself.

So I think we need some of that outrage you're channeling in order to make our politicians (and society) accountable when they become too complacent. But I also think it's not effective when you overshoot and start painting in a much worse light than it actually is - because all those other countries have problems too. There's a lot that went wrong with Deutsche Bahn (and it's of course nowhere near the level of SBB in Switzerland), but most of the time the system is reliable, decent and high-frequency and -density enough, which is something that is just not true in many areas of the world, even in Europe (there are enough places even in Europe where you wouldn't want to live without a car).


Heavily agree with your first paragraph! I'm contemplating on leaving Germany, because I think that this is just the beginning. Idiotic politicians wasting money on bullshit and not seeing the problems we have. More bureaucracy, less motivation to move things (let's all reduce the time we work), less value for your money, less security and more resignation. I don't see a path forward except me leaving this dumpster fire to be. I cannot build the life I want here and have the opportunity to leave, so why not ... I don't see any way how this can change without a bigger reset.


What country would you move to? The USA?


I went on exchange to Germany.

Somehow there should be a ranking of the foreign language abilities of countries. There Germany would do incredibly well.

It's strange that people obsess over math school rankings, but how many people do calculus beyond their schooling where as many, many people use a foreign language often in their work.

It's a non-BS thing people can learn at school and something that Northern Europeans do spectacularly well at.


German whining is one of the reasons why I'm glad I've left Germany, but now I've just realized that this is exactly what whiny German abroad would say.




Consider applying for YC's Spring batch! Applications are open till Feb 11.

Guidelines | FAQ | Lists | API | Security | Legal | Apply to YC | Contact

Search: