As said, they have cost me too much time and money already, moreso as other devs on the team(s) lent heavily into certain features and I had to rewrite a lot of code.
Why are you rewritting? 80%[1] of queries most users do can be efficiently handled by ORM. I might need to use hand-written query a few times either because this particular query is faster to write by hand or because ORM builds a a bad query. That is it, no need to throw away entire ORM because of that.
When I was in RoR world, pretty much every N+1 query I saw was due to lack of RTFM.
I need to rewrite the parts that are broken and without going into too much details: it's a lot of code where we had no problems with hundreds of rows but now with thousands (so nothing, lol, I've worked on projects with hundreds of millions of rows) we get severe performance problems.
Because it's half a dozen joins and hence no N+1 query but actually N*6+1 queries...
And yes, RTFM is nice, problem is: it's my fucking partners that should've done this before we shipped it to the customer which they abandoned and I did not.
You’re describing issues with a specific ORM, not with all ORMs.
And not even that, really. I’m sure you can understand that it is possible to call functions that execute SQL statements inside a potentially nested loop? What’s that got to do with an ORM.
I am sure you understand that I gave one, namely the latest, example of my experiences with ORMs over more than a decade and a half in various projects and tech stacks.
They all ended the same way and whenever I have a say, I'll oppose ORM, because of my subjective experience.
You wont change my mind, especially not with any snarky comment that starts with "I am sure you can understand"
Maybe you're just a way better engineer than me, maybe you could work on other projects where ORMs were a lovely fit and you didn't end up having to join half a dozen to a dozen tables because of ever changing requirements and a very convoluted domain. In either case: I am super happy for you. For me ORMs have never delivered on the promise. The easy things are easy, but the complicated things are severely underperforming and depending on the tech stack one cannot even fall back to raw queries (yes, you heard that right) within the framework. To me the easy mappings are nice, but the downside is that my colleagues are sometimes lazy (depending on the project) and don't even see an issue with "Well, then the client has to wait 2 minutes for this simple Webapp to render" (again, this EXACT thing happened twice to me now. Once I was finished with the refactoring the client had to wait 8 seconds with 10 times the data - really)
So while it may not be the fault of the ORM, it certainly didn't help the project as a whole, with the team members as they were.
With that being said: have a wonderful day/night and a lovely start of the week!
