Before 1939 there were large Jewish communities across Europe and the Middle East. There were many schools for rabbis and philosophy. But Antisemitism and the Holocaust destroyed the European communities and antizionism forced the Jews from Arab countries to Israel in the 1950s. These communities have never been rebuilt. The hate was real, powerful and successful. Most of what was left of the Jews went to Israel.
Israel is now the centre of Jewish life and religious life. It is also where Jews are most protected. For example, most rabbis are trained in Israel and many Jews have moved there. So many modern Jews have a spiritual, historical and familial connection to Israel.
Jews see a different side of the conflict. Most want peace but believe their Arab enemies do not.
Yes, and that seems to be the rationale of western politicians as well, essentially, "we have to protect Israel to protect the Jewish people, without it, the Holocaust would risk repeating"
That makes sense as a "subjective experience" (if there is something like the subjective experience of a people), but it fails the reality check for me.
Yes, Israel is the center of Jewish life today (New York coming next apparently), but I can't really believe that it genuinely is the safest place for Jews in the world today - not after the last years. Jews in the US or Europe were not at risk of being murdered by Hamas, hit by a missile from Iran or get conscripted in a war. Jews in Israel were.
> Most want peace but believe their Arab enemies do not.
Well, everyone wants peace in the "I won" sense. I don't see that most Israeli Jews want peace in the sense of living together peacefully with their neighbors.
(Neither do their neighbors, true - which is why I fault Israelis less here than the western allies who should apply force to both sides to deescalate and reconcile if they really wanted to end the conflict, but who instead only apply pressure to one side and unquestionably support the other side)
Their neighbours don't really have an option though. Stopping all resistance will not stop the settlers from harassing and chasing away the natives, and it will not force Israel to respect any border (which they took care of not even declaring). If anything, Palestinian resistance is functional to the progress of the occupation, so, if things get too quiet, a couple of killings or demolished homes keep the situation dynamic enough.
Unless you're counting on the moral authority of the Western nations that stayed silent or even financed and armed Israel while it was starving a population under blockade and bombings, murdering tens of thousands of civilians, killing hundreds of journalists, bombing hospitals and universities. Maybe they would say something if Israel killed and conquered a population that absolutely refuses to react. What do you think?
Israel has conscription laws that require all Jews participate in the IDF. It's one of the only places on Earth where a pacifist Jew would be forcibly made to participate in lethal conflict.
There are thousands of other, safer places that a Jew (or anyone, for that matter) could choose to live. As evidenced by the lack of Iron Dome in New Jersey.
Well I tried but you are extremely ignorant, and my comment got flagged anyway.
> Jews in the US or Europe.
There are hardly any Jews in Europe after the Holocaust. They're a rounding error. The communities are small and vulnerable. The largest community in France is under strain with antisemitism and is moving to Israel. The 2nd largest in the UK is not far behind.
The USA is different and agree on that. It is the one place where Jews are possibly safer. That doesn't help the rest who can't move there.
> I don't see that most Israeli Jews want peace in the sense of living together peacefully with their neighbors.
There have been repeated attempts at peace including the 1947 UN partition plan, the ceasefire deals in the 1960s and 1970s, the 1990s Oslo accords, the 2000 peace plan, the 2005 unilateral withdrawal from Gaza, the 2008 peace plan, the 2020 Abraham Accords. What you see today is also the other side not wanting peace.
> There are hardly any Jews in Europe after the Holocaust. They're a rounding error. The communities are small and vulnerable. The largest community in France is under strain with antisemitism and is moving to Israel. The 2nd largest in the UK is not far behind.
This honestly makes no sense for me. I live in Europe (Germany) and the discussion about antisemitism and Jewish life is front-and-center here. There are also several synagogues in my city. No one, not even the pro-Palestinian protesters wants them to go away - on the contrary, most protesters (from the left!) go out of their way to stress that their protest against the state of Israel is not hate against the Jewish people. In fact, lots of protesters are Jews themselves.
Who keeps conflating the two things and blurring the boundaries in public discussion are pro-Israel orgs.
Unfortunately, you're right that real antisemitism is rising. However all European states are taking a stance against that.
There are ~100,000 German Jews, from a pre-WW2 population of 560,000 in a modern population of 83.6 million, 0.1%.
Yes, did forget that one. Reinstatement of the prohibition to Judaism's holy sites, expulsion of hundred thousands of Israelis from the West Bank, and unlimited Arab immigration to the Jewish state. But it was a peace plan.
Edit: I'm still in shock you argued that 100,000 people in a population of 83.6 million is a lot - front and centre - but hand waved the forced relocation 500,000 people in a population of 10 million in a much smaller country as just the cost of peace.
No one in Germany (except neo nazis) would object to more Jews settling here.
> but hand waved the forced relocation 500,000 people in a population of 10 million in a much smaller country as just the cost of peace.
The West Bank is not part of Israel. And evidently the Israelis expect the same of 7 million Palestinians (if they aren't trying to annihilate them outright - see OP link of this thread).
> But it was a peace plan.
It still is. It was offered again several times, last time I believe by Qatar during the Gaza war.
Israel is without a doubt, the most dangerous place for Jews in the world. Not only is the entire country built on ethnically cleansed land (and thus Zionists have the indigenous population correctly trying to get them off the land), Israel has also attacked almost every country in the region and regularly receives missile attacks.
Before 1939 there were large Jewish communities across Europe and the Middle East. There were many schools for rabbis and philosophy. But Antisemitism and the Holocaust destroyed the European communities and antizionism forced the Jews from Arab countries to Israel in the 1950s. These communities have never been rebuilt. The hate was real, powerful and successful. Most of what was left of the Jews went to Israel.
Israel is now the centre of Jewish life and religious life. It is also where Jews are most protected. For example, most rabbis are trained in Israel and many Jews have moved there. So many modern Jews have a spiritual, historical and familial connection to Israel.
Jews see a different side of the conflict. Most want peace but believe their Arab enemies do not.