Stop worrying about whether you've left it too late to be the next Zuckerberg. Stop worrying about whether you've sacrificed your future happiness on the temple of Mammon. Just live your damned life, one day at a time. If you think that everything is going fine, you're probably right; If you think that things are all fucked up, you're also probably right.

Stop letting douchebags with blogs give you life advice. They don't know you, they don't know your life, they probably don't know much of anything. For all their bravado, they're working from a sample size of one, just like everyone else.

I'm sick of all these lifestyle posts on HN that are full of absolutism and false certitude. I'm sick of this attitude that your life is a dismal failure if it isn't micro-managed down to the last millisecond. I'm sick of being given life advice by weathly, privileged Americans who think they're wise because they've made it to their thirties without massively fucking anything up.

Once you read enough of this stuff (HN,Quora,blogs) and see directly contradictory advice everywhere, theres no point reading anymore. You can use it understand what you gain and what you lose from going one route, but you have to make up your own mind in the end.

Eek.

That's no option. At least for men.

Men are restless hunters and highly competitive creatures. Men thrive when taking risks, when being in a fight and when they finally won and dominate their peers. As sad it sounds this is what we need and make us happy. We can have breaks from time to time like working as dull office drones avoiding any risks and watching Youporn before bedtime but we degenerate when this state of boredom sticks for longer time. Even if Zuckerberg, its Facebook and the constant flow of successes of peers on the FB news feed drives many into depression, men need this to get out of their comfort zone and start fighting.

(Besides, I think that the original article is crap as many lifestyle advices)

Just getting your testicles removed would do the job too -- but seriously, please get some advice before doing anything.

Everything I've done in my adult life has been motivated by my desire to be attractive to women that I'm interested in; studying hard to get good grades, going to grad school, pursuing good employment, developing my personal and social skills, working out, everything. I'm getting better all the time, and I see my successes, but now in my 30s I'm not sure what the message is here.

Should I have just grabbed any woman that would have me, even if I'm not interested in them for the sole purpose of "developing a serious relationship"?

But it took me a long time to reach this conclusion. I used to work out in order to be more attractive, but stopped, because I didn't like it and it seemed like a chore without proper motivation (plus, having some extra fat is good health-wise and for enjoying water sports); now I sometimes work out because I want to get better in sports. I studied pick-up and seduction, but realized that most of it is just games and lies, and that I don't have in me whatever is necessary to use those to attract people. Also, whatever success I've achieved, I tried to keep it secret for as long as possible, because I didn't want people, girls especially, to like me because of the fortunate life circumstances I had encountered.

For the past two years, I've been single. And picky; I've only pursued women that I was totally attracted to. I didn't seduce anyone; that means pretending, but I was just being me. I went out a lot, met new people, tried new things, went to events I wouldn't normally go. If I saw someone I liked, I tried to meet her, but only rarely managed to even talk to her. There were many failures; rejections, or I didn't like her, but ultimately there is only one reason: we weren't compatible. Then, all of a sudden, I met someone, completely unexpectedly, and I didn't even think I would like her initially (I've lost all hope). But she totally surprised me, she's the best girl ever.

I hope this helps; I tried following other people's advice and accept their values, but I couldn't. Then, I lived life according to my values and tried to meet people compatible with me. Initially, I've failed, but I kept my standards, and finally, I've met someone special. Do what you want, meet people, be friendly and honest, and someday, you will meet someone who is awesome beyond your wildest dreams!

Along the way, you find someone that views you for the person you are trying to be, the one you are now, and whatever is the spur of the moment.

I don't intend to judge you, just the comment. I really think this post is shit and I have not idea why I chose to respond to your post.

Chuck it up man. We are are all fucking just getting by with our shit.

> Everything I've done in my adult life has been motivated by my desire to be attractive to women that I'm interested in;

The message is that you (and I, for I have days when I think exactly what you described) are missing out on things that are more stable, more useful in the long run.

> Should I have just grabbed any woman that would have me, even if I'm not interested in them for the sole purpose of "developing a serious relationship"?

I too have fallen for women multiple times and failed on all occasions, and developed in the pursuit without any successful. But I do imagine that I might be missing out on the experience that one gets from events after a successful pursuit; some of which could probably be gained even from a less-fortunate more-superficial relationship.

Unfortunately, I'm not one of those people.

I am beyond the used up cliche, that you are only supposed to write about the one who is special. Not even a single tune, not even a single rhime for the millions of the wrong ones, who were here with me, when I didn't have Her.

Believe me, they weren't dumb. Each of them knew - when there is not a Big love. A little one will do.

Most women will make up their mind about you within 10 minutes after meeting you. Often even less than that. You have to do the same.

Some portions of it apply more to the 20-something working at Starbucks while waiting for his band to make it big, and the HN crowd won't relate much to that, but there's plenty of other solid advice that I definitely related to.

I'm not usually big on the self-help books, but here it's a psychologist talking about examples she's had of patients dealing with their personal/professional/love life and how they addressed those things. It's a quick read- recommended.

    > working at Starbucks while waiting for his band to 
    > make it big, and the HN crowd won't relate much to that

But it's not really what's meant by that here (and I think you know it :) )– there are some (many?) 20-somethings out there who work as <low maintenance menial job>, because "I can always worry about a career when I'm 30" and "I'm just going to do this for a couple years while I find my thing".

I personally know people like this, and you probably do as well– that's the kind of attitude that was referred to in my original sentence.

As far as I understood, Elizabeth is somewhere near her 40ies and I'm not sure if she even developed her serious relationship in her 30ies, as she is quite ambitious herself and comments, that she met her significant other at work... that happens a lot. But what really surprised me, that this almost got her and/or the other fired. I know a large amount of couples, who work at the same place and everything is fine!

And most importantly: What if, there was not this girl. This guy?

For me there was not this girl and I am 30. Of course, I had serious beautiful relationships with all the grinding imposed by one or two ambitious humans and also the nicer sides. But in the end, I'm single now and love to work on ambitious projects where I meet ambitious people!

Be, who you are and be proud of that. Love will hit you anyway and there is no need for a "task" or the hassle of developing serious relationships in your 20ies. It can happen to you any time, no matter of age. Even in your 80ies. If you are not convinced, watch this:

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1602620/?ref_=fn_al_tt_1

Someone's giving life advice to those younger than herself, based on her own life experiences. Something everyone does, increasingly so as you age - particularly if you care about people. I don't see anything other than good intentions in an article like this. tl;dr: "Prioritize love a bit more over work in your 20s instead of the norm that's emerging of putting that off till later" -- still fail to see what's repulsive in that message.

I honestly think it's good advice. Too many of us think life can be run in sequence (hard slog at work > make money > do something I love doing, spend time with family, etc) when really, everything happens in parallel.

But isn't that the case when anyone gives life advice? Everyone has their own own perceptions of norms.

The most depressing part about the article is that it starts out with the assumptions that you have opportunities for relationships available to you that you're willingly passing on and that you're getting laid on "a regular basis".

Yeah, write me an article on how to satisfy your assumptions first, and then I'll follow whatever advice you've got about what comes afterward.

I'm in the target demographic for this post (I turn 29 on Tuesday), and I'm seriously considering making a conscious decision to be permanently single.

I understand that people find a lot of happiness in relationships, but I just don't think I'm capable of making room in my life for another person, and I don't think I'd make a particularly good boyfriend. I'd have to become a dramatically better person - something I don't know if I have it in me to do.

Does this make me somehow broken? Are there others who feel this way too?

Girlfriends take up a LOT of time. If you find someone who's a perfect match, then go for it. But scooping out valuable time in your life for a relationship that's merely ho-hum probably isn't worth it. For people who are very smart, like a good portion of the tech crowd, the relative stupidity of the general population eliminates a good portion of women, too, which certainly exacerbates the situation.

Mathematically speaking, I know the chances of me finding a long term significant other are very small. My last girlfriend was an electrical engineer, and she moved to the midwest from the east coast. It was great while it lasted, but she was literally the only attractive smart and technical person I've ever met in this area who was interested in people like me. Whenever I see my friends with their girlfriends, it always makes me feel a bit lonely. I know that logically speaking, it's not something I can or should have, since I don't think I'd make a very good significant other (for some difficult personal reasons). But it's still something that bothers me at night.

Do what makes you comfortable and what you think will make you happy and fulfilled in ten, twenty or thirty years. I felt this post made a strong case for thinking of relationships as long-term investments and although it's hard to think on that scale, that may help you with your decision of how to live your life.

Edit: I know several people living open relationships, polyarmory... Still not sure it can really work in the long run, but might be worth a try (both monogamy and polyarmory probably have their own problems, anyway).

Well, I have been living alone now for 1.5 years; and let me tell you: It's really great. What you need is to get over the "You need to socialize" thing. That socializing will prevent from getting you depressed, and all that crap.

What you need to do is to figure out alternative channels. I use forums, news sites, and I still have 3 friends that I meet a few times per month.

Thanks for sharing. A wonderful article which summarizes the whole purpose of why we live. Work should be the means to the living experience rather than the ONLY living experience.

It is strange we suggest this only to people who are not pursuing arts. May be it does exist some shallowness to 'jobs' but I fail to see it.

That said, I understand everybody is different. Although I will say that I too thought I was somebody who didn't need a relationship. I changed my mind when I fell into a great one and saw first hand what it had to offer.

There's also a quality to young love that I don't think you could ever find once you hit middle age. At the risk of sounding really shallow, young people are much more beautiful on average. But it's not just that. The experience of growing old with someone is considerably different from meeting someone when you've both already aged a good amount. These are experiences that you will never be able to have if you put them off for too long. The same cannot be said of work.

The article is wrong about what holds back relationships for 20s engineers. It isn't careerism as she claims. It's that the engineer is a militant libertarian, an autistic savant or a polymath of software development.

No normal woman wants to date a passionately unempathetic man. If you can't sympathize with poor people, or things that don't interest you (like humanities majors), how are you supposed to convince a normal woman you care about her feelings and her passions in spite of your voracious narcissism and ego?

OkCupid and polyamory are our sexual revolution, not "affairs." IVFs and surrogates are our reproductive revolutions. Technology exists to make the frightening Unempathetic Man capable of reproducing himself (and feeling sexually satisfied).

I feel extraordinarily lucky that I got to date a normal white girl my age at my school from 20-22 in college. I'm glad we still love each other as adults. I look down Mass Ave and wonder in terror how different my life would be if the women I met thought having two simultaneous boyfriends was okay.

Looking backward, there was a few signs of eventual disaster, but the conclusion was very unexpected (for me, my friends, her friends, and even her family).

However, despite the double betrayal, I think I have learned a lot from the whole experience (including the three years before the break-up). Not simply about relationships, but also about myself. So I kind of agree: if you can have a serious relationship, see it as an occasion to grow up. And if it doesn't work (and it seems that it probably won't, sadly :(), see it as another occasion to grow up. Don't be afraid of an eventual disappointement.

Disclosure: was my first relation. Definitely not an expert.

Not that it matters all that much, but I honestly believe deathbed wishes often include "I wish I had more of an impact on the world". You can get that through relationships (by procreating), or you can get that through building stuff. Or a combination of both.

Trying to trivialize the hard work people do to release products is like trivializing the time people spend at the gym or the salon, attempting to stay attractive in order to establish better relationships.

It's a small part of something larger. Trying to change the world by building stuff is not something to be ashamed of.

I worked in SV right out of college - Facebook was basically a blip on the radar and the coolest mobile phones still had physical buttons. I worked my ass off the first few years mostly because I had landed a great paying job (meaning I no longer was making 12/hr) and had no idea what kind of performance was not good enough. It was really fun and exciting for a while. I was fortunate to meet and marry someone that was right for me during my "later years" in SV. Being a proud geek I have been in a few relationships before but was not and am still not a relationship guru. The only thing I do know is that a (real, long-term) relationship will most likely push both of you to the max on everything... fun, happiness, stress, frustration, disappointment, etc, etc. While it has always had its ups and downs I feel very fortunate - the tech stuff is fun, I still enjoy it but the relationship, family, kids etc makes life really dynamic (sometimes in ways you may not like but its part of the deal).

I know I may sound like an old man but I think Id tell any aspiring techie coming out of school to try to make it a priority to figure out if they want to be married (and if so obviously to whom) and if they want to have kids. (As a note there is nothing wrong with not wanting these things) From my own experience I've felt that in your 20s (within the tech world) there are mostly only socioeconomic influences that deter you from going that route whether its the cost of living in the city or a professional dream that seemingly needs your full-time dedication. While it is not a ticking time bomb there definitely are certainly some fuzzy limits on the time you have to do these things that seem to come faster than you might think. (I dont want to get into a discussion about menopause or marriage later in life but I think its healthy to recognize the marriage/kids stuff does slowly get progressively harder later in life for most people).

Anyhow for me around 30 life started to look a little bit different to me. I like my work but its just a piece of my life. I used to spend 90% of my time working in tech or going home and playing with tech. I still do so to some degree but I have to admit that Im glad its no longer my only primary thing Im involved with.

Now, since it's on the front page my view. You have two options:

Either you spend your time in your early 20s chasing women and spending all your time on building relationships and getting laid or:

Start at least 5 startups until you are 25 and hope that one of them gets kind of profitable or even better and you do an exit. Starting later is getting harder and harder, you are spoiled by high salaries and laid back office work and suddenly you have a child and it's getting to risky to start anything. The experience you make as an employee hardly help you as an entrepreneur but you need to fail often as an entrepreneur -- every failed startup brings you tons of experience and closer to a successful company.

Back to the girls: if you got successful with your startups you don't have to think about relationships and girls -- you'll send so much self-confidence and they're will be tons of opportunities. And even if you still do startups which didn't succeed you have much more to tell then any office drone. You'll have much more opportunities than those who desperately looking for the SO without having a life or anything to tell. That doesn't mean that you should omit any social life or getting laid while building a startup, it just means don't focus on this, focus on being an entrepreneur.

You won't always be young, but a startup at any age is always possible. Since money will never be able to buy time (though I'd love to see a time machine or a reversal of aging), I chose the former. I don't regret doing a startup, but I'm happy where I'm at today. Getting my head out of the rat race has been one of the best decision I've ever made.

Anyway, I think the main thing is that having kids in your thirties is a lot more stressful, in the sense that you usually want to have a stable relationship before having kids together, and time is running out. There is that biological clock ticking, at least for women - while men have more options, it means having to find a significantly younger woman to have children with.

And once you have children, you realize that it would have been nice to be younger. It means being in better shape to play with your kids, being able to be there for them longer, and a higher chance to experience grandchildren.

I came to Silicon Valley in my late 20s. I'd already had a lot of relationship ups and downs. I got married not long after getting here. I'm now, um, older...

It's great for folks who are fresh out of college that a bunch of middle-aged VCs who missed the boat on Zuckerberg because after the dot.com boom they were "playing it safe" backing their MBA buddies in startups which went nowhere, are now desperately trying to shut the stable door after the horse has bolted and find the next Zuckerberg by investing in very young entrepreneurs. It's great. There is some brilliant innovative consumer apps that have come from this - diamonds in a pile of rhinestones admittedly, but they're real.

When I was 22 and my best friend were 21 we were being laughed out of every funding source we could find by suggesting that (this is in 1993/4 mind you) we set up an "Internet Service Provider" because we were European Physicists when the world wide web was created by and for European Physicists and we thought it was going to be big. "What is this Internet thing? ...It's an American fad, going nowhere... you're just two young techies with no business experience... etc." I am genuinely glad the environment is better today than it was then.

However (yeah there's a but)... it's breeding a generation of young technical talent burnt out on mediocre over-angel-funded startups with little real world life or experience. It's not that either end of the spectrum is right - it's that we've gone too far past a happy medium.

I used to run an internship program and I'd advise the young undergrads that they should get out and do the things they want to do after college, take risks, travel while you can and while you're young. So long as you have a good narrative, have learned a lot from your experiences, and take the opportunity to grow up and gain perspective on the world, people will forgive almost anything before you're thirtieth birthday so long as you're prepared to knuckle down and focus by then.

I don't think that's true today. We've created an environment where to be a first time entrepreneur over thirty is seen as questionable. By 40 even with experience if you haven't already had a home run it's VERY difficult to get financial backing right now. This is irrational of course. The idea that real world experience dulls your blade which would otherwise have been fresh, right out of college, is silly.

I am happy that I didn't spend my 20s just getting burned out. After we couldn't get our startup off the ground, we finished our degrees, did some real world work, got some life experience, and I don't think either of us was worse for it as a person.

I meet a lot of people looking around in their thirties and realizing, like this article says, that they've never really learned the broad range of interpersonal skills and relationship skills outside of the startup bubble.

Do what you love to do for work. Absolutely. But don't lay on your death bed wishing you'd worked less and loved more. Really. Don't do that.

The advice in the original article is not new. In fact it is the default advice that is given to all, very unlike what the OP has mentioned. I haven't seen any person with experience mention that personal life is a sink. It could be an advice that is ignored the most, but it definitely is the advice that is also given most frequently.

The term 'Workaholic', is a negative even in its name. And I don't believe anyone, who has done even the slightest of introspection, consider being a workaholic to be the most optimal condition for them. They might love their work, I do as well, but I think the intensity is often due to either grandness of their objectives or due to lack of alternatives. Given then humans have a propensity to overestimate the impact of the our own work, they also tend to underestimate the comparative value of things that do not directly and visibly help in achieving that goal they desire so dearly. And what they desire is not always what is considered acceptable or good, but what is considered extraordinary and different. We have seldom celebrated people for having a balanced life. The most important aspect of people whom we have admired, as a community, is never the balance that they have in their person and professional life, it is their impact on the world - the size of the dent they created. Hence, even though some of us know they might not make it, they hope that if they work just an hour more a day at the expense of existence of a personal life - it might increase their chances. They are ready to lose it all but never to be ordinary. These are the risk takers who have a choice at having a relationship but choose not to take it. For they fear they might die in mediocrity.

And then we also have the other kind, those who don't have a choice. Work being what gives them some hope of acceptance. Some relevance. I often think that one way of thinking of our primary motive is that we want to have some relevance, that we want to be remembered when we die, we want to be missed when we are missing. We want to be either extremely very relevant to a few people or be at least be somewhat relevant to masses. We do see the value of love and the value of all the very personal relationships that we have, successul or unsuccessful. We might even value them more than the relevance that we get in lives of many through our work. However, some of us are too unfortunate in the pursuit. And too afraid. And to bring some luck to our misfortune, work seems to be a safe choice. A choice is to work, for the rewards are largely under our own control and independent of how we look. Work is a safe haven in a world that has marked us to be unattractive and unworthy of affection. Of course those of us who feel this way, are at fault. We could change the way we dress, go to gym and travel; basically do things that we don't enjoy to get a chance at a game that we suck at. But we sometimes think, "fk it all, I will just work" for that at least might bring some minimum guaranteed rewards. We are the risk averse who fear we might get nothing but disappointment, again, if we pursue something personal and lovely in life.

This is not that hard to parse.

Don't like how she comes off as "super relationship expert full of wisdom" here. I don't care how many relationships she's had, or how old she is, not all relationships are created equal, and these things she calls "inevitabilities", while certainly common, are not inevitable. Being in a relationship with that mindset could just turn it into a self-fulling prophesy.

As just one easy example, you don't have to have children, so her comment about kids doesn't apply to any couple that decides not to have kids.

It's not super relationship expert full of wisdom. It's the stuff the old people in your family used to tell you round the fireplace when we all had multi-generational homes and wisdom was passed down from generation to generation. Something we've lost today. The difference is you can't get mad at your gran for telling you stuff you don't want to hear.