I was on a bus over from Montreal, we were all in a big room after they had emptied the bus. One guy was born in Cuba and was Canadian now. The border guard asked him how he got to Canada? The guy says 'What do you mean?', and the border guard replies, 'How did you get to Canada, did you swim over?' Another guy had gotten a DUI in '79 in Canada, and the Guard was asking him about it in front of everyone. No joke, these guys may be doing their job, but they are a bunch of assholes, even to US citizens, and they are outside the law - you can be detained indefinitely at a border crossing without any probable cause, US citizen or not.

This makes me never want to leave the US. I fear that I will be scrutinized at the border and not be allowed back. Is so ridiculous I drive down the street when a police officer gets behind me I get really anxious and will sometimes go off route just so they're not behind me.

I was born in Germany to two American parents that were in the military. So I'm afraid they may send me back to "where I came from".

You cannot be barred entry into the US if you can prove you are a US citizen. You may be required to submit to questioning, and you can be prosecuted if there are any warrants for your arrest or you are attempting to bring something illegal into the country, but that's it.

I'm a little confused. Are you a US citizen? If you're ever refused at the border, there are other channels. One guy at one point of entry doesn't ultimately decide your fate.

You can't actually be refused at the border if you are a citizen.

You can be detained indefinitely for no reason, even if you're a citizen. Habeas corpus and probable cause don't apply.

Are you referring to the 2012 NDAA? Because that specific provision (that denies habeas corpus under the AUMF) has yet to be tested in court, and is unlikely to pass Supreme Court review.

From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Border_search_exception

> The United States Customs and Border Protection (CBP), ICE-HSI Special Agents, and Coast Guard officers (E4 grade and above) who are all customs officers (those tasked with enforcing Title 19 of the United States Code) with the United States Department of Homeland Security, are permitted to search travelers and their belongings at the American border without probable cause or a warrant.

And the "border" isn't just what you might think of as the border (https://www.aclu.org/technology-and-liberty/fact-sheet-us-co...):

> According to the government, it is a 100-mile wide strip that wraps around the “external boundary” of the United States.

Thus, we have a "constitution-free zone" in the US, where 197 million Americans reside (https://www.aclu.org/know-your-rights-constitution-free-zone...). Within this region, the Fourth Amendment is invalid.

If you Google the term "constitution-free zone", you can find numerous articles detailing the experiences various US citizens have had while traveling within the US (with no intention of crossing any national borders) of being stopped by federal agents from one of the groups listed above (CBP, ICE-HSI, Coast Guard) and being subjected to a search in violation of the Fourth Amendment.

Also: http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2013/02/electronics-border-...

I understand, but none of what you cite refers to indefinite detention.

That's the border. What if they put him on a no fly list? There are stories of citizens stuck overseas because of that.

Most customs personal I have encountered are assholes. This isn't much because of policy, it's simply because you're mostly low educated morons who can't deal with the responsibility of authority and will therefore abuse this position at every chance possible.

A lot of these stories crop up in regards to the US but the same thing happens here in Australia and in New Zealand as well.

A good read if you are actually concerned:

https://www.aclu.org/files/kyr/kyr_english_5.pdf

This is a Know Your Rights pdf from the ACLU, for those who would like to know before clicking.

Hey if you need anything in mtl let me know.