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Tesla unveils new car-charging robo-snake (washingtonpost.com)
401 points by daegloe on Aug 6, 2015 | hide | past | favorite | 197 comments


The gif is sped up. This vid is actual speed https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uMM0lRfX6YI

I think it's awesome. But, it obvious that the current implementation will inspire the creeps in lots of people. Sci-fi horror has put an unfortunate bad rap on robotic tentacles and chromed vertebrae.


I bet if you exposed another mammal like a monkey or a cat to that recharging tentacle, it would be frightened by it too. We are wired to be afraid of snakes and snaky things. It's one of the most common phobias. Sci-fi horror merely tapped into that fear.


> We are wired to be afraid of snakes and snaky things

Are we really wired for it, though? I've personally never had that fear.

Perhaps it's a little more nurture than nature?

</anecdata>


"Experiment 1 results indicated that observer rhesus monkeys acquired a fear of snakes through watching videotapes of model monkeys behaving fearfully with snakes.

In Experiment 2, observers watched edited videotapes that showed models reacting either fearfully to toy snakes and nonfearfully to artificial flowers (SN+/FL-) or vice versa (FL+/SN-). SN+/FL- observers acquired a fear of snakes but not of flowers; FL+/SN- observers did not acquire a fear of either stimulus.

In Experiment 3, monkeys solved complex appetitive discriminative (PAN) problems at comparable rates regardless of whether the discriminative stimuli were the videotaped snake or the flower stimuli used in Experiment 2. Thus, monkeys appear to selectively associate snakes with fear."

Experiment 1 shows that monkeys become afraid of snakes through watching videos of other monkeys being afraid of snakes. Experiment 2 shows that monkeys don't acquire a fear of flowers if shown a video of other monkeys being afraid of flowers. Experiment 3 shows that monkeys can still be conditioned in other tasks using videos of either flowers or snakes.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2230660


So, is it obvious that monkeys aren't afraid of snakes if they never see other monkeys act afraid before? Because that's what I'd test first.

Further, if there's a learned fear of snakes, that might not be coincidence, even if it's not genetic.


Yep. From the actual paper referenced above:

"Although considerable controversy has existed over the extent to which this fear of snakes is “innate” as opposed to based on learning, current evidence suggests that learning is necessary for the fear to manifest itself, at least for some primate species in which wild-reared but not laboratory-reared monkeys show a fear of snakes (see Mineka & Cook, 1988, for a review). For example, Mineka and Cook demonstrated that laboratory-reared rhesus monkeys who were initially unafraid of snakes rapidly acquired a fear of snakes after watching wild-reared model monkeys exhibit a strong fear of snakes (Cook, Mineka, Wolkenstein, & Laitsch, 1985; Mineka, Davidson, Cook, & Keir, 1984). The naive laboratory reared observers initially reached rapidly for food placed adjacent to a series of stimuli, including a real snake, toy snakes, and neutral objects."


My dog has instinctively done many high level things, peeing on tall things, sexing anything, responding to scolding despite I have never been violent to him, shaking water off with a weird reflex, pooing away from his home etc. It's like those behaviours are already preprogrammed. Being scared of certain classes of animals is no more.complex, I think humans probably have tons of preprogrammed behaviours we later add a narrative to. Perhaps belief in unseen agents is one of them.


While its not very hacker news to post funny cat videos there's one here of one reacting in what looks like an anti snake way to a cucumber. I doubt the reaction was a learnt fear of cucumbers https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=62Ov_ptXsE8&feature=youtu.be...


'Wired for it' is a problematic term to use, as it is often interpreted to mean the outcome is deterministic.

Humans are wired for noticing snakes. There are neurological mechanisms [1] that have evolved in humans to prioritize visual detection of snakes [2] and other common threat-related stimuli. I don't know what the science says about this perceptual mechanism being inherently linked to a fear response, but it would make sense given the hypothesized selection pressure that gave rise to it (i.e., not only noticing, but avoiding, the snake before it bites me raises the chances my genes will be passed on)

1 - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feature_detection_(nervous_sys... 2 - http://childstudycenter.rutgers.edu/Publications_files/LoBue...


More anecdata... I was never afraid of snakes as a child (much to the dismay of my mother) nor am I now, but the times I've heard the rattle of a rattlesnake caused me to react in a way that was undeniably involuntary. Seemed pretty primal.


Make it the arm of one of those bloody Minions and everyone will suddenly love it.


Kids and adults are OK with stuffed lions and tigers. How does that fit in with the wiring theory?


Stuffed toys are exactly that, toys. They aren't representative of real lions and tigers in many ways, including most relevantly that they are cute, not ferocious, and are usually much smaller.

If you had a lifelike stuffed tiger and you posed it in contexts where it wasn't immediately obvious that it wasn't real, I bet you'd get some amazing startle reactions. It sure works with dinosaurs, even though dinosaurs haven't existed for millions of years: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DSup2gj2Gn4


Yeah but that's the same startle reaction you'd get from any large object traveling towards. I bet if you just moved a steel beam at those speeds out at someone and had it track their position like the "dino" seemed to then they'd be startled too.


It just suggests that we've evolved fears of some, but not all, things which are dangerous to us?

An analogy might be, many people are afraid of heights, and fewer people are afraid of water. That's despite the fact that water is also dangerous. But none of this proves or disproves the notion that fear of heights may be "hardcoded".


The look like soft little puppies. Everybody loves and nurtures puppies.


That's size dependent plenty of kids fear life sized stuffed lions. Though this may go away with exposure.


It's funny, if that thing were simply anodized, say, a diffuse white with some blue accents, I imagine it would look far less threatening than its current "Terminator" chrome appearance.


Considering Elon Musk's public statements about the risk of advanced AI, perhaps he finds it helpful to cultivate a sense in society that "Terminator-like" AI is starting to happen now.


If that were the case, it should have a bright red LED 'eye' somewhere :)

It's about just as common as the chromed tentacles, and often co-occurs (2001, Terminator, Matrix, probably more).


Do you think that without sci-fi horror robotic tentacles and chromed vertebrae would seem more friendly?

All my instincts are screaming "evil thing!"


It seems completely, extravagantly unnecessary, but that's much like many other qualities of Tesla cars I guess.

Is it really too much work to plug in a charging lead by hand?


Imagine you pull up to a Supercharger on Friday night of a holiday weekend. All the stalls are taken and there is a line of a handful of cars in front of you.

Today, you wait in your car until the people in front of you finish charging.

Tomorrow, you leave your car in line and go get dinner.


Imagine you pull up to a Supercharger on Friday night of a holiday weekend. All the stalls are taken and there is a line of a handful of cars in front of you.

I'm wishing I still had my gasoline-powered car at that point.


Well the gas car would just be in a line at a gas station instead. It doesn't solve the issue at hand.


The "energy current" when pumping gasoline into a tank is larger than what those achieved by Tesla's Superchargers (which take ~40 minutes to 80%). Thus gas stations can have much larger throughputs than comparably sized Supercharger stations.


Which is not a fair comparison because gas stations must meet 100% of the refueling demands of gasoline cars and charging stations only need to meet a tiny percentage because most charging takes place at home or at work.


Apart from the coolness of it, I think this is the main actual use-case.

As the cars get more autonomous, being able to initialize charging robotically (either in a supercharger-queue, or when the car parks itself at home) is useful.


Robot cars don't have hands.


There are several much simpler ways a robot car could connect itself for charging. This is just gee-whiz tech for its own sake, and it's fine for Tesla to do, don't get me wrong.

But as someone who can't afford to buy a Tesla, and who wouldn't spend that kind of money on a car even if I had it, I'd rather see the R&D going into more affordable, more practical EVs that I might actually consider purchasing.


Because the people who are skilled with robotics should instead be working on chemical engineering and process management?

I'm tired of seeing this fallacy of "one thing being developed means that another thing is being put on the sideline". It looks to me like Tesla have the best people on the jobs they need to be on, and just adding "more" isn't going to speed things up more than having more mothers will speed up pregnancy.


May I borrow that line? It's a great way to express a point that I frequently try to make.


But that is The Tesla Master Plan. Pay for the R&D with luxury vehicles before producing more adorable ones.

Build sports car

Use that money to build an affordable car

Use that money to build an even more affordable car

While doing above, also provide zero emission electric power generation options

http://www.teslamotors.com/blog/secret-tesla-motors-master-p... (August 2006)


*before producing more adorable ones"

Oops, I meant "affordable" but "adorable" works too I guess. :-)


> There are several much simpler ways a robot car could connect itself for charging.

I was wondering if Tesla would introduce conductive charging at some point; install a base in your garage, park on top of it, car's charged by morning. Perhaps not feasible with the amount of energy they need to transfer?


Even if technically feasible, it'd be a waste - the most efficient inductive charging systems still lose more than 10% of the energy.


  There are several much simpler ways a robot car could 
  connect itself for charging
That's a bold assertion. What's your suggestion that would be simpler than a cable driven arm like in the OP? A couple linear actuators in the base, no precision bearings.


Same reason keyless entry exists.


>The gif is sped up.

was considerably more impressive at snake speed!


This is incredibly uncanny.


yeah I excitedly showed that to a friend sitting next to me and she straight up shrieked


Time to jack in and take on Agent Smith.


Wouldn't it be faster to just have a post that would align with the vehicle, being already at the correct height to start out with, quickly find the connector and wham-bam thank you ma'am.

Snake version will always be slow due to the number of motors needed, imo.


Nice. Robotic fueling has been done before [1][2], but this is much less clunky. This looks like the OC Robotics snake robot.[3] Finally, a use for snake robots, which have been around for 25 years but are not used much. Tesla has a good application for this - the car end is cooperative and standard. The car's parking guidance system can be programmed to recognize visual targets and get itself into the proper position.

The mechanism is simple. There are many linear actuators in the base pulling on cables that run through the snake segments and attach to plates at the joints.[4] Cable wear is a common problem, but that can be overcome. Charging robots won't cycle that fast; tens of cycles per hour, not thousands.

[1] http://fuelmatics.com/videos-2/video-demonstration/ [2] http://www.robosoft.com/robotic-solutions/transport--logisit... [3] http://www.ocrobotics.com/ [4] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WTkmyDO2ubs


Isn't this a little over-actuated for the problem at hand? It shouldn't need to go around complex barriers, just connect with the charging port. I don't see why something much simpler/cheaper with 3 or 4 degrees of freedom shouldn't be able to do the job. This is pretty cool though.


Call me a pessimist but I look at that thing and I see it breaking. Drive over it, vandalism, one of the hundred little motors having a defect... Why not just have two or three axis of movement in a more static, 90° construction??


The whole point of snake robotics is that one motor being a defect shouldn't render the entire robot useless. Of course that depends on intelligent control systems (algorithmic or mechanical) that can deal with limitations on any of the joints, without explicit damage sensors.

As for vandalism or getting driven over, well, that's not really a vulnerability exclusive to this approach.


For protection from vehicles, put a bollard on either side. If the cables have overload springs, which they should, forcing it to bend won't hurt anything.

The tentacle approach is mechanically elegant. The base mechanism is obviously a prototype, but that can be cleaned up for production. Ice, water, and sand in the mechanism will be a problem for outdoor installations, so the base unit has to be protected against those.


In my mind, I'm seeing a simpler solution that may be viable, enter the The "Claw Game" charger:

* Attaches to ceiling of structure

* Has some sort of sensor to identify charging port, perhaps on the charger end itself

* Has some limited range of mobility - 2'x2' with X & Y axis movement

* Cord unreels down to the charging port once it is reasonably lined up

* Charging cable has Macbook style electromagnet, reaches "charging zone" and activates, inserting itself

* Safety checks are done, wattage is pumped into the cottage if all is well

I honestly don't know if this is better or worse, it's definitely less cool.


That could probably be made to work today, with the gear used by container cranes to slot containers onto ships, trucks, and railroad cars. It would be more complicated than the snake, because stabilizing a hanging load is hard. Once in a while it would probably scratch the car body.

What a lot of people here aren't getting is that snake robots are mechanically simple. They're unusual, but neither complex nor expensive to manufacture.


Would the claw still work if it was coated in soft rubber?

Alternately, I'm imagining the cute-but-ridiculous solution of making the claw and the car magnetically repel one another, so as it the claw plumb-bobs downward and swings toward the car, it just sort of naturally veers away from the surface, rocking around it in an arc until it stabilizes.


T-600s were covered in rubber - turned out people could spot them easily, so they were poor infiltrators.

Tesla should consider covering these with living tissue to make them more palatable to humans.


Make it so that the magnet is recessed inside a rim of soft plastic or rubber. Then it will still be able to slot onto the charge port but will not be able to hit the car body.


> Attaches to ceiling of structure

That's where my garage door goes.


You're telling me you don't have a 1+ feet of clearance above your garage door?


Some variation of this could potentially work with the Model S, or Model X, however the Model III will most likely have steel body panels instead of aluminum. I would imagine it would be next to impossible to line up the magnet correctly.


After watching this GIF, I imagined what it would feel like walking past a charging station with this thing on it. How it slowly turns its 10KV-charged head towards me.

"- You definitely do look like a charging socket to me.

- I really do not. Look, I am human...

- No, you really do. You just need a quick charge..."


Just keep your mouth closed and it won't notice there's a socket to plug into. Once you start talking though, it may keep applying greater and greater force in a valiant attempt to insert the charger...


That's an awfully optimistic anatomical statement when we're talking about robotic snakes. Just saying.


I just realized that this is a "dual-use" technology, if you know what I mean.



Hey, free electricity at least.


I'm reminded of the movie Matrix where the snake like robotic connectors go and connect to sockets behind human brains.


well, it can be used as a home protection device - once home security is armed anything the computer identifies as intruder can be chased and Tasered by this thing.


This is the far more likely scenario:

After watching this GIF, I imagined what it would feel like walking past a charging station with this thing on it. How it slowly turns its 10KV-charged head towards me.

"- You definitely do not look like a charging socket to me.

- I really am. Look, I am not human...

- No, you really don't...

- I just need a quick charge!"


10 KV? I think it's max about 400 V, depending on region.


In a British accent too to make it all the more frightening


Wheatley's voice


Are there any engineering advantages from choosing this design vs. a more traditional arm, or plug that just moves on two rails up or down and then extends out?

In theory, there is minimal height distance from where such a charging station would be in relation to the car and the charging port height, even when accounting for different Tesla models. As such, I'm not clear why they went with something that on the surface appears overly complicated unless it was for the "wow" factor.


The snake arm is quite simple. The "snake" part is a set of dumb hinged segments; it's all cable-driven from the base. The application does not require much rigidity or repeatability. The load is low; it's just carrying a power cable. There's probably a camera at the end of the tentacle to guide the connector to the car's power socket. The car opens the connector cover, so there's no need for a mechanism on the robot to do that. This is much simpler and far less bulky than the automatic fueling systems that have been built to refuel cars.

The marketing value of this is enormous. People won't have to get out of their cars and get their hands dirty handling a gas hose. This is going to go over big with women.


The huge benefit will be when this is used in conjunction with the self parking system. You drive up to the front of your house, get out, and the car drives itself into the garage and plugs itself in.


I completely agree. I came here to say this but see you beat me to it! I might add that this could be used to park your car miles from where you live. You would simply let your car know when to pick you up and it would come to you like calling the valet at a hotel before heading out. If tesla had overnight parking garages/chargers scattered around we could use all that garage space in our houses for more activities!


That's a really interesting thought once you consider where autonomous vehicles are going with Uber and Google's self-driving vehicles.

It makes a ton of sense that any such vehicle, in addition to going to pick you up, drive you around and drop you off needs to be able to park itself at home base and refuel in an automated fashion.


Yeh way cool, you don't need a driveway or garage then. It would be good to reclaim that space.


I'd always seen electric vehicles and fully autonomous vehicles as synergistic technologies for this reason. Certainly, in the part of town where I live, no one has garages or even driveways, so electric cars as they stand would not be practical here.


This is going to go over big with everyone - Men are just as happy to be lazy and stay warm as women are.

And it's Tesla, so they already won't handle a gas hose, just a glorified electric plug.


> The marketing value of this is enormous. People won't have to get out of their cars and get their hands dirty handling a gas hose. This is going to go over big with women.

I think you're underestimating the benefit here. From my talks with Tesla owners, some of the Supercharger stations are pretty far out in the middle of nowhere (for coverage, they have to be).

Late night charging in a rural area without a lot of people around driving an expensive car?

On the plus side, I'm sure the creepy prospect of Terminator-esque robotic snakes dancing idly (maybe Stravinsky's "Infernal Dance" over speakers?) would in and of itself help to deter any would-be muggers from loitering.


How long does the recharge take? Are people really going to sit in their cars for 30 minutes?


You're right , the tech isn't hard. For example there's this arduino hobby project , a swimming robot snake:

http://www.instructables.com/id/Make-a-swimming-Robo-Snake/


I assume the purpose is for a driver to just pull into the garage and have the charger hook up automatically, so a two-rail system would probably not be able to deal with the car being parked at a slight angle and not completely perpendicular to the plug.


The dead-simple solution for aligning the car is to make it drive onto alignment rails. Or, given that it can auto-park, just give it an auto-pump-align routine based on that.

The true benefit of a "smart pump-side alignment" system, I think, is that it copes with different models of vehicles (e.g. EV SUVs, EV 18-wheelers, etc.), with their charging ports in different places and orientations.


Why make the driver adapt (driving onto rails, etc), when the charger can adapt?


Beyond being able to handle almost arbitrary orientations and alignment between the car and charger, Elon is probably planning on reusing this tech at SpaceX for docking or other purposes (just like they share battery tech).

He's a pro at coming up with "synergies" between his companies.


TBF, for space technology it seems far too complicated; you'll want less components, not more. Less components means there's less chance of failure and less weight. I mean I'm pretty sure each segment is motorized or has cables running to it with separate motors.


Indeed, this may have even come out of Space X.

While something bound for space needs tons of testing, loads of refinement, and to be the absolute minimum weight possible, the worst that could happen with this in your garage is... what? It can't find the socket so it beeps angrily at you until you move the car closer.

So, it might be partway through it's development cycle for Space X, but good enough right now for use here on earth.


Hadn't considered that at all, and you are right that there seems to be some real winning synergies between his companies. Interesting implications.


I'm guessing it's because the charging cable is fairly thick, making bending it arbitrarily fairly difficult. This design will make sure that the cable isn't too strained while integrating it as one piece.

You can definitely solve the problem using a traditional arm though -- so maybe it's just for the cool factor for now.


Yes, this design is far more compliant to external movement and also the stage can be far smaller than something needing three axis of freedom.


That is an interesting video to watch. I immediately imagine a self driving car, on its way to pick me up, swinging by this robot arm to charge up.

I wonder if it would be possible for something like this to provide a charge while moving? Like airplanes that can be fueled in the air.

I suspect the energy to keep the charger itself moving would make that a pretty inefficient way of doing things, but it's fun to imagine.


The weight of the battery needed to charge a Tesla at anything like a 'fast' rate would be huge ... there's no efficient way of then propelling such a heavy battery along without then needing even more heavy batteries or a big ICE engine. So nope.

I think this is meant to complement the (as yet unreleased) Tesla can-park-itself-in-your-garage feature.


I bet there could be creative situations where it could work. Imagine a rig that joins to an electric overhead line (like a light rail). The rig could move at the speed limit around the ring-loop of a city's interstate. Cars can pull alongside it to charge. If it had enough arms, and was narrow enough you could charge quite a few cars. If its then charging from the grid it needn't actually be propelling a battery at all.

Or in a situation where moving the battery already happens. Maybe where a whole fleet of trucks have purchased into a booster pack scheme. The booster packs fall on and off at various cities along a long route. Kind of like jettisoning a space shuttle's boosters. On either side of the city you have 50 packs charging. Radio that you need more juice and as you hit the city limits a booster latches on, you trail it through the city charging your main pack back up, and drop it off on the other side of the city where it charges and waits for someone going the other way. The truck never stops, it just keeps going and gets 'boosted' by a self-driving battery trailer every time it's within 100 miles of a city.


Or allow you charge-up without really doing anything. Stay inside your car and read at the supercharger station!


Or, cars become a shared resource and you just call up basically a driverless Uber when you need it. That's the future I want to see in e.g. areas where mass-transit is blocked politically (e.g. BART from SF to SJ) or where the population density is such where it doesn't make sense.


Looks like Elon plans on competing with Uber.

http://qz.com/473803/tesla-ceo-elon-musk-on-potential-uber-p...


Imagine your robo-tentacle in drab safety black-and-yellow, have a hundred of them waving in the dark waiting for their JohnnyCabs to come in for a charge between fares...


The tyranny of the self driving self driving car refueling bot.


In stunt mode you could just gang several Model S batteries together (which would fit in the back of a pickup). I guess the idea isn't very practical though.


They should have made the charge port in the back center of the car. Then while driving along a charging vehicle with a snake on the front would drive up behind and charge you up! Now that I would pay to see. You could even make it a detachable accessory on all electric cars so any car could give any other car a mid-flight boost. The future is bright and potentially very funny.


Very cool tech indeed.

A battery swap while on the move might be more efficient/faster then a charge on the move. (But it would be nice if the next-gen solar panels installed on a car would be efficient enough to provide enough power for a car drive)


  (But it would be nice if the next-gen solar panels 
  installed on a car would be efficient enough to provide 
  enough power for a car drive)
You only get about 1.5KW of light per square metre, on average. A car has maybe 4-8 square metres of usable solar panel space, so guess you could get 3-6KW of power using superexpensive cutting-edge 3-junction solar panels that manage 50% efficiency.

Model S has a 310KW motor. Assume you only run it at 10% of rated power when cruising, and that's 31KW of power draw. More than that, of course, since the motor controller won't be perfectly efficient.

No way you can run a consumer vehicle on solar panels built into the body.


It can work as a range extender, though, especially if factoring in charging while you stop for a bite to eat, shop, visit the office, etc. In addition, if you're an occasional driver, it can be charged and ready to go if you simply park it in a sunny spot.

I'd pay extra for such solar panels in the roof.


You mean like this?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H5V0vL3nnHY

And I doubt solar panels would ever be used for charging the whole car in a very significant way, even if they had 80% efficiency.


Somewhat like this but while on the move


In the future roads would probably contain wireless charging within them with solar panels alongside them.


I've long been disappointed that, even as far as we've come, most robots or moving computer-controlled things have been a box with something going round on it (car, washing machine etc.) or sometimes back and forth along a straight line. This therefore pleases me greatly.

(and it totally gives me the creeps)


it's not without good reason. there's no point in over engineering something when a simpler design can do the trick.


> This therefore pleases me greatly.

There are days when HN really begs itself to turn into (the worse parts of) Reddit... Seriously though, the gif, video and various comments invoke a mix of various weird feelings in me, most of them not positive.


Can you imagine how pets are going to react to this?

A real-world use-case involves this in a garage, and you pull into the garage (or tell the car to) and it parks and then this snake starts its dance and finds the chargeport and connects and starts charging... and your dog goes completely ape-shit. And barks and shrieks and jumps and snaps its teeth and gets a nice vise-grip with the snake in its jaws and next thing you know, just like in cartoons, you suddenly see a black silhouette of the dog and inside the silhouette the white skeleton bones of said dog flashing brightly as it electrocutes itself at 80 amps and 240 volts. Tesla 1, Dog 0.


I doubt that any current is being passed through that snake until it has made a connection with the car. Then once it is charging it will be protected with an RCD, so your dog might live.


Most dogs hate Roombas as well.

After a little persistence, it usually settles down to an uneasy status quo.


Well, that escalated quickly


Not strictly on-topic or generally interesting, but for any of us who've read Neal Stephenson's new novel 'Seveneves', this reveal has a thin extra layer of interestingness:

In that book, a character who is an obvious analogue for Elon Musk sponsors the development of a variety of asteroid mining robots, including a type that superficially resembles this thing. 'Siwis' are, unlike this real thing, modular, semi-autonomous, self-propelling, and meant for operating in zero-gravity.

But still... snake robot sponsored by Elon Musk, out of nowhere.


I got more of a Richard Branson vibe than Musk, from the book.


Somehow this feels like an overcomplicated / expensive solution given that they control both the car and the charger. How much would it cost to install a robosnake in my garage.

Could they put a charging port on the back of the car that you back onto something? Or something on the floor that you drive over? There has to be a cheaper solution. If a Roomba can do it we must be able to.

I mean, that wouldn't be backwards compatible with existing teslas but I wouldn't think the installed base would be so high that that is a big issue yet.


Tesla's #1 goal seems to be "show people fun" then "be practical" is a few more numbers down the list of how to promote the brand. (Though, we all agree that "in seconds battery swap" was a scam, right? They just did it to meet regulatory guidelines temporarily by playing an on-stage magic trick.)

Tesla is like if Apple showed all their designs as they are developed (then 95% trashed) instead of waiting 3 years to show only magic finished products.

that wouldn't be backwards compatible

The MO of Tesla so far has been "BACKPORT ALL THE THINGS!" They don't seem to be fans of creating new-model-only features when they can engineer even a complicated solution for all existing models.


This probably isn't meant to be installed in your home. Additionally I think Tesla's philosophy has been to popularize electric cars first and foremost, regardless of whether it's their own cars, so designing proprietary stuff won't help.

Elon Musk in general seems to go for "inspire other people to make shit, even if I personally go down in flames in the end". Of course, that doesn't mean he takes unnecessary risks, he just values doing inspiring/world-changing things more than doing profitable things in the long term.

(Also this would probably be great for self-driving electric cars)


I think tesla would be very happy for other companies to be making electric cars and using tesla for batteries and other components. Really I think this is the long game, to goad other companies into making electric cars and then to be the control the primary means of powering / recharging them.


Didn't Tesla open source their patents? I think I read at the time that would allow others to make recharging plugs that adhered to Tesla's standards.


As a native Michigander I continue to be amazed at how Tesla is able to out innovate Detroit. After 100+ years of gasoline powered automobiles where is the gas robo snake?



Thanks, but note that it wasn't created by a member of the Big 3 ;<(. I cannot wait to be able to order fuel Uber-like on my phone and have it fill the tank. Detroit needs this now as it would practically eliminate car jacking.


Tesla's charging arm wasn't created by a member of the Big 3....


Isn't it enough we have a robo-snake that can zap you? Now you want to unleash a fire-breathing robo-snake on the world?


Are you kidding me? We've had Truckasaurus for decades. I mean how is this not impressive? http://youtu.be/r1KsTWegnOs


The gas robo snake was retired after it caused a massive fire.


Very neat tech.

Also interesting delivery method for the image in the article... and you can do https://images.washingtonpost.com/?url=https://www.google.co...


Why do they want me to enter my email address to continue reading? I had to delete 3 HTML nodes to get past their "drawbridge"...

Here's the gif for anyone who doesn't want to deal with the (totally useless) article: https://img.washingtonpost.com/blogs/the-switch/files/2015/0...


Adblocks, popup blockers, and my custom filters still aren't able to make news article websites usable, so I just don't even try anymore.


I think a lot of people were waiting for it, Elon basically described this last December!

> Btw, we are actually working on a charger that automatically moves out from the wall & connects like a solid metal snake. For realz.

https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/550297212769402881


This is pretty cool, I kind of wish it pulsed a little, like it was feeding, while it's plugged in and charging.


Definitely a PR move to compete with the simultaneous hacking story.


..which is odd, because the hacking stories are suggesting "everybody gets hacked", and Tesla are the only ones with the capability to do an OTA security fix (which they have done).


My thoughts too. I wonder if companies have stockpiled "good pr" stories that they release as needed.


Why isn't it a bottom/base charging devise? I imaging placing a plug at the bottom of the car (perhaps at the back or front of the battery pack) isn't difficult.


This is what I think they may secretly be working on for instant charging. Like you stop by a Tesla Super Duper station, and the battery in part or as a whole is just hot swapped with robotics and you're on your way in say 5 minutes


It's no secret – they've promised and demoed that capability for a while – but the rollout has been slow, and may be primarily motivated by gaming the tax-credits available if the Model S has a 'fast-fueling' option. See for example:

http://www.latimes.com/business/autos/la-fi-hy-tesla-battery...


Then you have to bend over and look at the underside of your car to connect it.


Why not put that thing into the car? It would take both space and weight (i.e impact range and performance) but then we could install outlets anywhere. The car (fleet) owner would be responsible for everything, including maintenance and replacements.

Maybe there's a reason why cables are part of the appliances instead of the outlets? Also, car owners would certainly prefer a snake that works everywhere and not just at home.


As a piece of new technology, it might need more frequent replacements than an averate Tesla car part.

Also, it would be unfortunate if you can't refuel your car because it has no juice left to power this appendage.


Looks much like to robotics made by Festo. I recall seeing a "elephant trunk" type of arm. Wonder if this is based on anything from these guys.

http://news.discovery.com/tech/robotics/robotic-arm-inspired...



Really? Is the need to get out and hook up the hose yourself really what's holding back electric cars?

There is certainly a cool factor with this thing, but think about how it will work at a real fuel/charging station. The driver will only ever see it in a mirror. And it looks like the range of motion is very limited, requiring the plug to be within a 30x30cm box. A later model will probably have a greater range of motion but I cannot see that be any less cumbersome. Give me a wire and a plug.

But maybe Tesla has done some market research. Maybe their target market is old people for whom getting out of the car is a real struggle. Maybe they fear large electrical cables more than rubber ones filled with gasoline. Or maybe they so distrust attendants that they prefer a mechanical octopus fuel their precious car ... until it misses the mark and does some actual damage to the paint.


While most if not all "concept technology" has its roots in the "we can do it, even if we don't know why we should" school of thought, I imagine this will be valuable for self driving cars. Imagine a car that can drop you off at work, drive itself to the closest robo-charger, and return to pick you up with a full charge, all without needing an attendant.

Given the current limited range of EVs, tech like this will likely encourage behavioral change in EV owners, reducing one of the negatives of EVs (forgetting to charge/not having enough charge to make it to your destination/having to remember to plug in every night), and ultimately spurring wider adoption.

Then again, sometimes you have to say "I wonder if we could..." before you fully understand why in order to advance technology.


That's how we end up with inflatable bbqs. This really looks like a rich person's toy, of no practical use.

Many people have talked over the years about self-driving cars dropping people off and heading home. That sounds great in terms of the number of parking spots, and might make sense in cities where parking costs more than rent, but I cannot see how doubling the number of trips can reduce traffic congestion. The far simpler solution would be to install simple (ie cheap) chargers at each parking spot.


Many people have talked over the years about self-driving cars dropping people off and heading home.

Have they? I've just seen references to cars finding nearby charging stations, not just driving themselves all the way home.

Either way, I think the more likely prospect is that people stop outright owning cars at that point. Why invest in a complete vehicle when you can just pay for a service that has a car pick you up whenever you need a ride?


For the same reason some people invest in a whole kitchen, despite the fact that they can pay for a service that has food show up in front of them whenever they're hungry.

Some people like to own their own things.

Some people like to do things themselves.

There will always be locations where there is not enough population density to ensure wait times will be <5 minutes for a ride at all times.

There's no reason to expect that self-driving cars will instantly dominate the market once we get to some sort of tipping point. Certainly they will allow for new paradigms in transportation, and they will shift "manual"[0] cars into a less dominant position in the market. Keep in mind that not everyone shares your preferences.

[0] It is interesting that we already have manual and automatic cars. How will we readily distinguish these? Additionally, I'd imagine that there is a large venn diagram overlap between drivers who prefer stick shift and who will prefer to drive their own vehicle.


Don't ignore developing markets. The USA has plenty of roads to waste, but Beijing and Bangalore don't. You'll see self driving cars be first mandated in cities with serious infrastructure problems as a way to completely optimize traffic (e.g. No manual cars on the express ways). Then local western governments will see a chance to cut their own budgets, as an easy way to satisfy the anti-tax attitudes of those people who ironically would prefer to drive their own cars.


I think your post goes to support my point that there is great diversity in markets, and we can't expect a single individual's experience or preference to accurately represent such.

> the anti-tax attitudes of those people who ironically would prefer to drive their own cars.

I am curious as to why you think that there would be such a large crossover between those who would prefer to have a "manual" car, and those who have anti-tax attitudes?


Because self-driving cars are socialist to an extreme. The real benefit of them is not to free the human of the tedious task of driving, but to take the human out of the traffic system so it can be optimized for the greater good. The same could be said about taxes: they sacrifice individual wealth for the greater good.

There will necessarily be a lot of resistance to self driving cars...people like driving! But they are quite inevitable, not necause people will "prefer" them but for totally societal economic reasons. And that is why your argument doesn't make sense to me, it's as if we will have any choice about it, when the current system is so messed up and under funded that it's obvious we won't.


There's no reason to expect "enjoys the experience of driving" and "is opposed to taxation" are descriptions of an individual that must be found exclusively together. That's the issue I take with your original statement.

I also see no reason to expect that it is inevitable that self-driving cars become mandatory globally, but that is a different point entirely and not one I'm interested in pursuing right now.


Taxation is the redistribution of wealth to benefit society as a whole. Self-driving cars is about taking away the task of driving from humans, which is really a privilege, for the benefit of infrastructure optimization. If you believe in retaining personal wealth, you probably believe in retaining your driving privileges as well.

> I also see no reason to expect that it is inevitable that self-driving cars become mandatory globally, but that is a different point entirely and not one I'm interested in pursuing right now.

Your premise is just completely flawed: you see self-driving cars as providing the benefit of freeing humans from the tedium of driving themselves, when in reality they are more about optimizing limited infrastructure. The former is a "nice to have but not necessary" benefit, the latter basically drastically reduces the amount of resources needed to maintain a city, it is a serious economic benefit that will be very hard to ignore. Of course, your city could allow for manual driving, but at great cost in needing more roads and such, it would be a serious tax burden on your residents (and rich countries can afford it now, but will they be able to afford it as populations double, triple, and space becomes much more limited?).

So your premise is flawed, you are attacking the wrong thing.


A common argument against EVs I've heard repeated is "Sometimes I forget to plug in my cell-phone, and it dies mid-day. What happens if I forget to plug in my car?"

This will address that concern, as silly as it is.


So it will seek out and plug in without driver input? I guess that would only work if they are in everyone's garage. Isn't there a smartphone ap that can remind owners if they part at home without connecting?


So a heavy (perhaps diesel-fueled) truck can pull up by the side of the vehicle and charge it enough to get to the next station?


It's difficult to know the target space needed for this rev of the device. Also, it's probably less than 30cm vertically - I'm quite sure some engineers at Tesla know the height of the charge port, even given the differences with the air suspension.


I'm picturing an interview with Elon Musk next week.

Interviewer: So what's next for you?

Musk: Well, I've been reading a lot about the teledildonics industry, and I think there's some real opportunities for synergy with some of the technologies we've been developing for Tesla. Especially in the Japanese hentai markets...


Guess they want to get this out in time for:

http://backtothefuture.wikia.com/wiki/Texaco_service_station...


I think Infiniti's induction charging concept seems much cooler: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vlYADNqxrPw


That's OK for overnight charging, if you don't mind paying a little extra for the electricity due to losses. But for fast charging, those losses translate into massive waste heat. A Tesla supercharger, for example, tops out at 120kW of power. If the inductive charger is 90% efficient (which I think is a realistic number) then that's 12kW of heat to dissipate. That's a lot. The car itself has similar losses when charging, and has a hefty cooling system to keep up with it, and it's going into a massive battery. Cooling a small inductive charging pad could get interesting.


Interesting idea. Before Shai Agassi's electric car company (Better Place) folded there was talk of a similar motorized arm [0]. I don't know whether that ever got past the discussion stage at BP, and they're out of business in any event.

[0] http://archive.wired.com/cars/futuretransport/magazine/16-09...


Should have seen this coming.

Oct 10, 2014 - https://youtu.be/FZ6lZJWL_Xk?t=9m23s


Finally a consumer application for a robotic arm!


My wife has a phobia of snakes and worms. This isn't going well for my Model X sales pitch to her...


I'm pretty sure your entire pitch is the doors go like this:

    |   |
instead of this:

    -   -


Half the doors go | |, the other half - -

It makes the "small parking space enter-exit point moot", I don't get it.



Yep that's about it! :)


Looks a bit like a elephant trunk robotic arm[1], really neat I wonder if that's not a little bit over engineered, though.

[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ZF35JUNaDg


For whatever reason this immediately made me think of NJ's laws requiring an attendant to fill up your gas tank. Does the law apply to electric charging stations currently?

If it does, I wonder what this innovation might mean to that law.


It should be a Robot, and not Snake like, Which to me is still very unpleasant.

Some may think this is cool, but to me this isn't very user friendly.

I hope this is just a concept. Because I hate to see it in real world.


"they were able to hack into the Model S and hit the brakes"

This is bullshit right? They were able to disable the engine, but the onboard logic makes sure that the car comes to a gradual stop.


I wouldn’t mind these in Oregon when I fill up for gas (where the gas attendants have to pump your gas for you). Way less awkward as long as I stay in the car.


Do they really intend to release this, or is it just an experiment? Because there's no way that thing is going to save enough time to be worth the cost.


The advantage isn't the time saved, it's that you can erase the need to charge your car from your mind. You just don't need to think about it any more.

Also, the flexibility of the thing hints to me that it will be used for charging more than just cars in the future.


I don't have a Tesla. But if I did, and I had to remember to get out, walk around to the back and plug it in every time I got home, I would probably want one of these in my garage!


Given average driving habits, the range of the Model S and the charging speed of the Model S, the back of my napkin suggests you'd only really need to plug it in once or twice a week. So forgetting occasionally doesn't sound like a huge bummer.


This enables a self driving car to charge. Your car can drop you off and go park.


I really don't understand the creep factor that everyone's talking about. To me it just looks like a metallic robotic arm. Am I missing anything?


It looks like something from imagination of H. R. Giger.


Having watched a large number of David Attenborough nature documentaries all I can think of is the footage of whales mating when seeing this thing...


I wonder what fail safes it has to manage someone driving off with the arm attached. Like the terminator hanging from the side of the car swinging around like crazy. Can't wait ro see it in action. I know Shell petroleum worked on a similar system for gasoline cars around the year 2000. It was deemed too risky to use.


The car won't shift out of park if there's anything in the charge port.

Edit: regarding the Shell attempt, one great thing about EVs is how safe they are to "refuel." You can literally have a four year old do it. I have.


Tesla cars will be self-driving soon, right? Let's call such cars 'robots'.

Isn't there some convention against allowing robots to re-fuel without human intervention?

Isn't such a rule in the same class as the rule against giving them the keys to the armory?


I'm just saying, in a world where self-driving cars go rouge, we're gonna want to deny them access to charging stations, and the charging snakes make it just that much harder.


I don't know, at least if the evil cars turn bright red we'll be able to spot them easily ;-)


Should be tagged NSFW.


Is anyone else thinking of the film Demon Seed?


I hardly believe it's enough to justify the poor 2015 quarters financials


this better not awaken anything in me.


Unveils?? This looks way too bad to be anything more than a sloppy prototype.


I invested a little into Tesla stock just because I like the company. Its been funny to me that pretty much any news, good or bad, makes the stock fall.

New prototype robotic charging arm? stock down ~8%


There was quite a lot of other Tesla-related news today. The company announced that they're struggling to ramp up production for the Model X and, totally unrelated, the Model S got hacked.


Ahh, okay, didn't look into it that much. Thanks ;)


Well, they also announced earnings after market close yesterday and lowered their forward guidance.


If your still using a gas fueled vehicle, my startup will do this for you (we use only humans at the moment, however).

http://purpledelivery.com (LA only)


FYI you need to fix that site, it takes me a full 2.5 minutes to finish loading with 150mbit internet in LA.


Nothing showed for that long or the video was loading in the background?




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