A country that is incredibly rich in historical significance (both good and bad), cultural traditions, art (historical and modern), regional variety and nature. Cities are walkable, public transport is mostly decent (it's perfectly fine to live without a car if you're in the city), crime is low, poverty is low, the economy has been tanking a bit recently, but has traditionally been doing well.
In terms of mentality, Bavarians are very different from Rhinelanders who are very different from East Germans. Berlin is a bubble in and of itself and can't really be compared to the rest. In general, Germans tend to take comfort in clear rules and structure, and are used to a certain kind of cutting through bullshit, both of which may be a good or a bad thing. I'll also add that, to my knowledge, no other country has reflected its own role in history as deeply and critically as Germany has, which to me comes as a bonus even when there is a tendency to overcorrect.
Food is IMHO not great (except Käsespatzle), but beer is some of the best in the world.
Don't forget bread. Whenever I travel to the US I'm appalled by what is considered good bread there. Not throwing shade here, it's just what it is. On the flipside, buying Avocados here in Germany is akin to a crime against humanity.
One of my pet peeves is how Germans have amazing bread, but then put the blandest possible stuff (like very tasteless Cheese, and one leaf of salad) on top of it, while Italians have great stuff to put on bread but the bread itself is so boring.
Orderly, rational people. Hard working, rich country, despite no natural wealth. No cutting corners, one of the reasons bureaucracy is so horrid. You are expected to have your shit together, still people are as lenient as they can be. Things work, you can trust people. Low crime, clean streets. Good sense of morality.
Country is capable of much more, still holds itself back a lot, preference in humbleness. Things are built on solid foundations. Not a bad place to be.
Not sure if you're being sarcastic or not - but in case you're not - seeing "10 cigarette butts" - instead of, say, piles of trash, dung, old broken down cars, and/or drug paraphernalia - seems pretty clean to me, as cities come.
Yeah, it's amazing how different peoples' expectations are. A bunch of cigarette butts would seem horrible compared to a Japanese train station, but compared to anything in Latin America it would be extremely clean.
Hardly. A lot of people buy into FUD without questioning it. A lot of people never question their government or rules no matter how stupid they are.
They'll just tell you to follow the rules even if you explain to them in a 100 page essay why those rules make no sense and are even detrimental.
They never acknowledge the possibility that their government/bureaucratic systems in palce can be faulty. If it doesn't work for you, then it must be your fault, not the system's fault.
It's the kind of blind trust in the system that lead to the Wirecard scandal happening under the watch of the entire world.
Rational people constantly question things, not trust and follow them blindly.
There's junkies fighting for crack in their underwear in minus degree weather right in the center of Frankfurt, shit and needles everywhere all around hauptbahnhof, come on.
Note that I am a German. I would say there are few. Bad education, especially in schools, a broken railway and public transport system, as well as incredibly high taxes. You may say "free healthcare" and a point can be made here, but when you take a look at the high taxes you have to pay, it's not worth it, if your income is above average. All in all it's a mess and I haven't even begun speaking about German people and their mentality, as well as poverty and unsuccessful immigration.
Mmmhh... I don't think the OECD data is not working comparing countries:
"The data are published with the following health warning: The data are intended for comparisons of trends over time; they are unsuitable for comparisons of the level of average annual hours of work for a given year, because of differences in their sources and method of calculation."
Yes, in Germany are many part-time workers but overall mostly they are not working 6 hours the day . Normal is - afaik - 8 hours per day on approx. 220 days in a year.
> And don't forget Germany has one of the lowest annual working hours in the world
Of course if you are a civil servant or part of some mega union, but for the rest of the private plebs it is often 9h daily(because lunch break is not part of contract) and most do a long commute(because of eternal housing crisis) which may raise it to 12-14h easily.
>Payroll taxes are typically flat-rate taxes levied on wages and are in addition to the taxes on income. In most OECD countries, both the employer and the employee pay payroll taxes. These taxes usually fund specific social programs, such as unemployment insurance, health insurance, and old age insurance.
Social security and pesnions aren't financed by taxes, in Germany taxes are not earmarked for a specific purpose.
If you would replace social security and pension contributions by private insurances with the same costs people wouldn't have more money available but the Germany's index position would be better.
You could even double the costs and the index would claim an advantage for workers even though they would have less money.
They used the pension money for other things so it's logical to pay it back.
And just because tax money is used for pensions doesn't mean the socuial security and pension contributions are tax burden.
Like I said, if all social security was through private insurance the tax burden would be lower but the people wouldn't have more money.
Health insurance proved otherwise. As long as you are healthy you pay less but as soon you get sick more often it gets way more expensive.
But the later wouldn't be recognized as tax burden.
Tax burden itself is a useless measure, the total cost of living is better.
>Like I said, if all social security was through private insurance the tax burden would be lower but the people wouldn't have more money.
It won't be that lower. The German pension has existing liabilities that they must pay. Since it is backed by the state, it will inevitably be paid by the taxes.
Even if the pension payments were abolished, just to pay existing entitlements, the taxes would be increased proportionally. The public pension can be considered a plus in a young country with a healthy demographics. In a geriatric state such as Germany, it is a big burden.
The Tax Foundation simply presents the data collected by the OECD[1]. You don't have to trust them.
>Social security and pesnions aren't financed by taxes, in Germany taxes are not earmarked for a specific purpose.
This is wrong. Because the pension contributions are not enough to cover the payments, every year billions from the tax revenue is used to pay the pensions. The German pension system is effectively bankrolled every year with the tax money.
>If you would replace social security and pension contributions by private insurances with the same costs people wouldn't have more money available but the Germany's index position would be better.
This is also wrong. The other countries have social security (For example: Australia). Unlike Germany, they don't charge for public pension separately. The contributions are included in the income tax. So it makes perfect sense to include it in the total tax burden for Germany.
> Because the pension contributions are not enough to cover the payments, every year billions from the tax revenue is used to pay the pensions.
Because the pension contributions are used for non-insurance benefits that should actually be paid for by all taxpayers, such as the mothers' pension or the equalization of pensions for retirees in East and West Germany.
BTW "every year billions from the tax revenue is used to pay the pensions" proves social security and pension contributions aren't taxes. Tax money is a subsidy not the main source.
>This is also wrong.
That part is totally missing my point. It's about the ranking. Without public social security the ranking would be better but worse for the workers and just because it's a tax in Autralia you can't simply count it as a tax in Germany.
If you want to compare you need the total costs of living not the tax burden.
Tax burden is just leverage to help companies and harm workers.
Replace taxes by fees and the tax foundation is happy, the people not so much.
>If you want to compare you need the total costs of living not the tax burden.
>Incredibly high taxes? Denmark has higher taxes.
Why would you compare total cost of living to find which country has the higher taxes? It doesn't make sense. Besides, you claimed Denmark had higher taxes. It has been proven that it was wrong.
>Tax burden is just leverage to help companies and harm workers.
I would like to hear how you reached this conclusion.
>just because it's a tax in Autralia you can't simply count it as a tax in Germany.
Yes you can, if your goal is to make a fair comparison between countries. The OECD uses it for measuring the tax burden on income. Especially because, the countries like Germany use 'creative labelling' to hide how much money they collect each year.
>Because the pension contributions are used for non-insurance benefits that should actually be paid for by all taxpayers, such as the mothers' pension or the equalization of pensions for retirees in East and West Germany. BTW "every year billions from the tax revenue is used to pay the pensions" proves social security and pension contributions aren't taxes. Tax money is a subsidy not the main source.
You've just proven my point. Because the money can be easily shuffled around, in practice, it is no different than income tax.
Truly the worst thing about living in Germany is the apparent national hobby of complaining about things that perhaps aren't great, but really aren't as bad as you might think.
In practice, German schools are pretty decent, but they obsess about PISA scores and so neglect to ever notice what the schools are doing well. The train networks are fairly extensive, can be quite cheap depending on how you travel, and consistent across the country, but a lot of Germans would much rather complain about how late they are than recognise anything positive about the system. The general public transport networks (i.e. transport inside towns and cities) are amazing, and one of the things that I would most miss if I went anywhere else.
I think part of it is just that if you're German, you rarely see these systems from an outside perspective, so you only see the points that chafe regularly. But another part of it really is just that German tendency to criticise first rather than to view things holistically.
I disagree heavily. Just because you have trains going everywhere (that's not a Germany-specific thing) doesn't mean they are allowed to be hours late. The transport system is broken, was destroyed by trying to cut costs in the past.
Same with schools and educators. And don't get me started on healthcare.
Your sentiment is part of the problem to be honest: Germans are always complaining, it's fine as it is bla bla. It is if you compare yourself to third world countries. But we compete with Japan, Switzerland, the nordics and so on. Also note that this is not a sentiment that is only found in Germans but also a lot of (high value) immigrants who move on after touching base. Germany has a lot of potential but utilizes that very little.
Why would I recognize anything positive about the transport system that has a high likelihood of making my trip a nightmare? It's literally the most important thing, to get me from a to b. That doesn't work with massive delays, cancellations, reschedulings and I miss my connections.
For what it’s worth, I’m German and live in Sweden and the train network is significantly worse than in Germany.
There are serious structural deficiencies at Deutsche Bahn, absolutely. But the gras is also always greener elsewhere. The nordics don’t have a better train network.
It’s bad enough in Sweden that a Chinese company has started offering the MTRX, basically the ICE equivalent between the two largest cities (although much slower, more like an IC) and that’s the best connection you can get. Imagine the outcry if that was the case in Germany for Munich-Berlin…
So I've heard. I once did a train trip vom Braunschweig to Narvik. Braunschweig to Hamburg was typical: the waggon I had a reservation in was not provided. So the train was not only late but overfilled. The danish train again from Hamburg to Kopenhagen was perfect.
The polar express from Stockholm to Narvik was awesome. On the trip down we had problems with construction and ice, so we were stranded in Abisko. We were taken with buses to a hotel, got food and even got a refund + 700skr deduction for our next trip. No questions asked. The experience was the opposite of the one you get in Germany. No bureaucracy. We got the SMS after Riksgränsen!
The next day I couldn't make my original train from Stockholm to Kopenhagen, so the train conductor just got me a new ticket for free. No questions asked. No bureaucracy.
Clear communication, situation well handled, all good. So at least this part blew my mind! Also the ticket control by just checking seats. Awesome.
I'm comparing this mostly to the UK, which is not a third world country. And to be clear, I agree that DB have been absolutely awful with delays and a lack of proper track maintenance.
But to present that as a full picture of the German transport system is to be completely myopic, and that's the issue. Yes, improvement is possible and necessary, but it's also nice to celebrate the successes of your country, and having a single system that covers pretty much all of the country, that integrates regional and intercity travel, that has a transparent and reasonably cost-effective pricing structure, that includes deals like the Länder-Tickets and the 49€ ticket, that is clean, and many other things besides feels like a success to me.
Do there need to be changes and improvements? Yes, of course! But this sort of self-flagellation ("oh woe is us, our transport system isn't perfect") is really tiring.
> I'm comparing this mostly to the UK, which is not a third world country.
I'm not so sure at this point. Comparing ourselves to the UK would be sad tbh.
Yes the 49€ ticket is a nice achievement. But again, it's not about having a perfect transport system. It's having one that is representative to our position in the world, our wealth etc. Buses are something of a gamble. Trains are notoriously unreliable. The same goes for a lot of regional/local providers. That's basic. Things like nice seatings, luxuries, food etc. would make it perfect. But you need to cover the basics first.
My problem with Germany at the moment isn't that it's objectively so bad - although you can certainly find places where certain things run better, such as Switzerland - but that it's getting worse and that for the last two decades, very little has been done politically to modernise. People and politics are happy with the status quo, not realising that in a changing world, the status quo isn't just going to maintain itself.
So I think we need some of that outrage you're channeling in order to make our politicians (and society) accountable when they become too complacent. But I also think it's not effective when you overshoot and start painting in a much worse light than it actually is - because all those other countries have problems too. There's a lot that went wrong with Deutsche Bahn (and it's of course nowhere near the level of SBB in Switzerland), but most of the time the system is reliable, decent and high-frequency and -density enough, which is something that is just not true in many areas of the world, even in Europe (there are enough places even in Europe where you wouldn't want to live without a car).
Heavily agree with your first paragraph! I'm contemplating on leaving Germany, because I think that this is just the beginning. Idiotic politicians wasting money on bullshit and not seeing the problems we have. More bureaucracy, less motivation to move things (let's all reduce the time we work), less value for your money, less security and more resignation. I don't see a path forward except me leaving this dumpster fire to be. I cannot build the life I want here and have the opportunity to leave, so why not ... I don't see any way how this can change without a bigger reset.
Somehow there should be a ranking of the foreign language abilities of countries. There Germany would do incredibly well.
It's strange that people obsess over math school rankings, but how many people do calculus beyond their schooling where as many, many people use a foreign language often in their work.
It's a non-BS thing people can learn at school and something that Northern Europeans do spectacularly well at.
German whining is one of the reasons why I'm glad I've left Germany, but now I've just realized that this is exactly what whiny German abroad would say.
I can't wait for the new Nigerian immigrant to swing his beer at Octoberfest arm in arm with the second generation Turk from Munich, all while the waitress, a temporary worker from the Czech Republic, rushes on.
It's not going to happen. Social cohesion is very low, and Germany failed to foster a sense of shared values among immigrants.
> I can't wait for the new Nigerian immigrant to swing his beer at Octoberfest arm in arm with the second generation Turk from Munich, all while the waitress, a temporary worker from the Czech Republic, rushes on.
Wait, isn't that what's happening already? I'm pretty sure the temporary worker from the Czech Republic is there, as is the second generation Turk voting for Erdogan. Not fully sure about the Nigerian immigrant though.
Indeed everyone is there. Except that no one is arms in arms with anyone - that was the point I wanted to make. The immigrants mostly live segregated along with their peers, and you rarely have the "melting pot", especially not at the lower socio-economic scale, from what I can see.
And that is not good for fostering a collective spirit. The order-abiding nature of Germans collides with the people from country that are more used to bend the rules, so everyone is stressed and unhappy.
I guess it's what you call immigration made in Germany.
Yes, I agree. There will not be arms in arms carousing..
> The order-abiding nature of Germans collides with the people from country that are more used to bend the rules, so everyone is stressed and unhappy.
Ah, there is a bit of a cultural misunderstanding right there indeed. In Germany, what is not allowed is forbidden. You need a certain rigidity of mind to be able to think that way. In many other cultures, what is not forbidden is allowed. Meaning that a badly defined rule leaves lots of leeway for a bit of creative thinking. Those are two different worlds careening towards an inevitable collision course..
> The best I'd say is a sense of collectiveness that is somewhat higher than other countries.
I wouldn't say that this comes anywhere close to many other countries in Germany. Societal coherence in e.g. Russia or Norway is much higher than in Germany.
I think it's rather the other way around: The countries you're comparing to might be exceptionally bad at it, and Germany is average.
Russia (with the exception of its ethnic minorities) is one of the most atomized societies in Europe, actually. The Russian dream is a house in the exurbs with a three-meter-tall impenetrable fence around the lot where you can do anything you want inside and no one will bother you.
Can you elaborate on societal coherence in Russia? This in particular piques my interest; what I hear from Russia is that it's a place where any interpersonal conflict is resolved with (verbal) violence.
interpersonal conflict has nothing to do with societal coherence tho... unless it's a social conflict. and let's say that social conflicts in russia doesn't happen anymore unfortunately. they used to be good at it.
Almost one million volunteer firefighters (Freiwillige Feuerwehr). These are 96.95 % of all firefighters. (For comparison: the UK quota is 2.31%.)[1] Very popular to participate especially in many rural parts of Germany.
Following and make the most pedantic rules. Germans loooooove setting rules and expect everyone to follow or else they rat you or or sue you even. (see neighbour conflicts about hedges growing too far etc)
Mild summers, good work-life balance, the European Union, decent healthcare, ease of travel, nature.
Even though I'm currently in a "it's complicated" relationship with Germany, I moved here by choice because I loved the place. These things are still there, but since I'm working so close to Germany's problems, I let it get to me sometimes.
The most beautiful cities at night, especially Dresden. You never need to own a car, amazing beer, awesome Turkish food, awesome dance clubs in old castles or rundown industrial parks; also life is 10 times better if you're a student :)
(I lived in Germany for about a year as an American college exchange student)
The hacker subculture there is incredible; closest thing to late-1990s bay area (before the flood of money killed everything) that's still alive today.
But yeah, there are a lot of negatives counterbalancing that.
Yes. Live translation services are provided for the minority of formal stuff that’s done in German. Drinking beer in the alternative track, everybody understands each other after a couple of drinks even if they didn’t before.
You hear people complaining a lot since they like to and we live with crazy priorities like "time to launch a company in days" but in the real world if we had a choice of where you are born Germany will be high on the list.
